From: Rainer Duffner (rainer_at_ultra-secure.de)
Date: Thu May 11 2006 - 11:04:02 CEST
Message-ID: <4462FE02.10103@ultra-secure.de> Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 11:04:02 +0200 From: Rainer Duffner <rainer@ultra-secure.de> Subject: Re: [suse-sles-e] SLES 10 Open Beta - When?
Marcus Meissner wrote:
> On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 12:44:04PM -0700, Alexei_Roudnev wrote:
>
>> Hmm.
>>
>> I can predict the same trouble again - too narrow beta testing for SLES10,
>> because of no open beta. As a result, we will need to wait until
>> ServicePack1.
>>
>>
>> PS. Novel never realize, that testing Limnux require thousands of
>> installation, doing on thousands of very different (sometimes unusual)
>> environments. The only way to do it is to have an open (with restrictions,
>> ok) beta programms.
>> Of course, OpenSuSe simplify it all (allowing ,many installations to be
>> tested in real environments), but SLES10 release still wil not be usable in
>> productions, except if we will see 2 - 3 month Open beta program over it.
>> Notice, tnat both, SLES9 and SLES8 relases, was not usable. People like to
>> make the same mistakes again and again.
>>
>
> You are aware that SUSE Linux 10.1 is the codebase that SLES 10 uses and
> that the open Betas and RCs for SL 10.1 are the massive open beta test? ;)
>
Yes, to some degree.
But how many users still actually have some SCSI-hardware at home (and
use it)?
Do you have a SAN at home?
Do you actually have an LTO2-tape library at home?
SuSE and SLES probably work well for hardware that SuSE uses on a
day-to-day basis.
The reality is: SuSE10.x will be installed on a lot of system, but only
a small percentage will resemble the kind of systems SLES10 is bought for.
Yes, it's the responsibility of the hardware-vendor to ensure that SLES
runs well on their (server-) hardware.
But it seems nobody does that very rigorously - and the "certification"
is often only with limited scope (i.e. just one special configuration).
W2K3 is still the OS that you can trust to run on your server with the
least problems and where the vendor will put most efforts behind to
solve problems - simply because W2K3 is the OS drivers are actually
written and tested for.
>> (OK, we all learned already and do not plan release versions in production.
>> So, SLES0 release will be a real open beta -:), and SLES10 SP1 will be a
>> real release. I only guess, why they can not use correct names - SLES10 and
>> SLES9 are BETAS, and SLES9 SP1 and SLES10 SP1 are/will_be production 0
>> releases.).
>>
>
> I would not say so. They are stable releases.
>
To a certain degree, yes.
I worked quite a bit with SLES8 in the disguise of SLOX - and it really
needed its patches after the initial install ;-)
That said, given the current development model of "Linux", it must be a
real pain to maintain something like "SLES" for 5 years.
I don't think it's very productive to start the same discussion from
some months ago again - I just can't imagine any positive outcome.
Novell should just keep in mind that most people who demand an Open Beta
are really interested in getting "their" bugs into the bug-fixing cycle
as early as possible. Freebie-SLES-installs are not really their
top-priority, as the kit it's running on isn't cheap either.
And getting bugs fixed (or even acknowledged) can be very difficult, as
we've seen on this list ....
cheers,
Rainer
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