[sles-beta] few things to note after my first install
Matthias G. Eckermann
mge at suse.com
Wed Mar 13 16:49:57 MDT 2013
Hello Maximilan and all,
On 2013-03-13 T 17:56 +0100 Decker Maximilian wrote:
> thanks a bunch for your feedback, I almost gave up hope...
>
> So it seems like there is a chance for getting fully
> supported r/w ext4 in SLES 12, well that would be great.
> And I know it might not be the best filesystem to choose
> for every scenario, but (IMHO) at least for the local
> filesystems it is quite superior to ext3 (and yes, many
> different reasons and opinions here ... we can skip that
> ;-) At least, if we are able to select ext4, many
> discussions will be avoided, whether or not we actually
> use ext4 then.
This is understood.
> Anyway, regarding my reiserfs3 comments - I was referring
> to this long-standing-but-still-stuck bug report:
> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29162
Ah, good to have some data points.
> As I said, I do not have SLES 11 SP2 systems running on
> reiserfs3, so I cannot tell if SLES is affected here. But
> I guess it is. There even is a @suse mail address involved
> (CC on bugzilla), so if there were any SuSE specific fixes
> to that I think they would have been committed upstream
> already.
I will ask in our development team.
so long -
MgE
> Really looking forward to your mentioned blog post.
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Matthias G. Eckermann
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. März 2013 16:57
> An: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server Authorized Beta Program
> Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] few things to note after my first install
>
> Hello Maximilian and all,
>
> sorry for not responding more quickly: I was traveling.
>
> So, we have two questions here (at least):
> 1. ext4: why not fully supported yet? SLES 12?
> 2. reiserfs quality
>
> On 2013-03-04 T 15:39 +0100 Decker Maximilian wrote:
>
> > please, any official comment on why there is no ext4 support in SLES
> > 11, even in SP3 ? This question is asked quite a lot by our customers,
> > and I am running out of arguments here. Especially when it comes to
> > "but in RHEL there is .... " To some degree I could understand that
> > for 11, it was missing from the beginning. But what are the odds that
> > we see ext4 in 12?
>
> 1. There are several reasons, why we do not support ext4 in
> read-write-mode yet (we do support it in read-only-mode),
> as you may know from studying the release notes.
>
> For more details I probably will provide a longer E-Mail
> or even a public blog in the comming days. To give you an
> idea already, about why we are not supporting it yet:
>
> * Missing Scalability, specifically compared to XFS.
> As you know, we do support XFS in SLES for 8+ years
> already without extra costs.
>
> * Questions about ext4's reliability specifically on
> multi-disk backends (there should be some public
> information about this). As far as I know that's the
> reason, why another Linux distributor is using
> XFS underneath their storage product and not ext4,
> even if ext4 is their default filesystem. That should
> tell us something, ...
>
> * Supporting a filesystem needs more than just support
> for the Kernel module, but integration, QA,
> certifications, ...
>
> For SUSE Linux Enterprise 12 we plan to follow the
> upstream development in the Kernel area, and as you may
> know, ext3 and ext4 are now served by one Kernel module.
>
> > Btw - you know that reiserfs (v3) has some serious stability issues as
> > of post-2.6.35 kernels, right ? The BKL replacements somehow rendered
> > reiserfs prone to deadlocking in a more or less frequent manner. These
> > issues seem to exist up to at least the current 3.8 kernels. So (in
> > theory) also SLE >= SP2 (i.e. 3.0.x) kernels might be affected. But
> > the good thing is - I cannot tell for sure as none of our maintained
> > SLES 11 installations is on reiserfs. (same with btrfs)
>
> 2. Where does your information about ReiserFS come from?
>
> Are you sure that this information is valid for
> SUSE Linux Enterprise Kernels?
>
> We certainly do have additional patches in ReiserFS
> in the SUSE Linux Enterprise Kernel, which might
> not yet have been accepted / shiped upstream.
>
> I checked back with our Kernel team, and we do not
> have any reports or issues open with ReiserFS currently.
>
> Do you see ReiserFS issues with SUSE Linux Enterprise
> in your environment? -- In that case, please open an SR.
>
>
> so long -
> MgE
>
>
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com
> > [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Swartz,
> > Patrick H
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. Februar 2013 19:57
> > An: 'SUSE Linux Enterprise Server Authorized Beta Program'
> > Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] few things to note after my first install
>
> > To add to that, we can't/won't be able to use BTRFS until it can
> > support /boot. Our SLES11 deployment model is based on using Atomic
> > updates, which requires the first 2 partitions to be dedicated to
> > Atomic. So, that means that /boot is therefore incorporated into the
> > root partition. The ability to roll back patches and upgrades is
> > critical, but not being able to roll back a kernel makes BTRFS useless
> > for us. Just my 2cents worth from the field...
>
> > Patrick Swartz
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com
> > [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] On Behalf Of Decker
> > Maximilian
> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 11:25 AM
> > To: 'SUSE Linux Enterprise Server Authorized Beta Program'
> > Subject: Re: [sles-beta] few things to note after my first install
>
> > Hi list,
> >
> > regarding the lack of (supported) ext4, just out of curiosity - what
> > exactly is SuSE's reason behind obviously abandoning ext4, which by
> > now is a well known, fast and proven evolution to ext3 ?
> >
> > Of course, BTRFS really is the cool new stuff, and it seems like it
> > will become an amazing alternative. But to be honest none of our SLES
> > customers is actually running BTRFS in their datacenters yet. Some
> > lab or testing installations do exist, though, however bottom line is
> > - for production systems we are effectively stuck with ext3.
> > (sometimes even due to missing support from 3rd party SW vendors)
> >
> > If I understand correctly ext4 might also be missing in SLES 12. And
> > I know there are plenty of discussions on this matter all around the
> > internet, but hey, I hope with the current Beta maybe SuSE can shed
> > some official light on that. Really would be great to know.
> >
> > Please don't get me wrong, I know there are quite a bunch of brilliant
> > developers at SuSE that are giving their blessings to the current
> > state of BTRFS, and we also got official SuSE support on that, but it
> > just does not help "in the field".... people still consider it beta.
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > - Maximilian
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-
> > > bounces at lists.suse.com] On Behalf Of Thorsten Kukuk
> > > Sent: Thursday, 21 February 2013 8:36 PM
> > > To: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server Authorized Beta Program
> > > Subject: Re: [sles-beta] few things to note after my first install
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 21, Greg.Lehmann at csiro.au wrote:
> > >
> > <---& ----->
> > >
> > > > 2. I can't believe we have btrfs as a filesystem option but no
> > > ext4 - again SLES 12 hopefully.
> > >
> > > I don't think that this will change.
> >
>
> --
> Matthias G. Eckermann Senior Product Manager SUSE® Linux Enterprise
> Phone: +49 30 44315731 Mobile: +49 179 2949448 E-Mail: mge at suse.com
> SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany
> GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) _______________________________________________
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--
Matthias G. Eckermann Senior Product Manager SUSE® Linux Enterprise
Phone: +49 30 44315731 Mobile: +49 179 2949448 E-Mail: mge at suse.com
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany
GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
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