From gjn at gjn.priv.at Mon Apr 21 02:41:02 2014 From: gjn at gjn.priv.at (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_J=2E?= Niederwimmer) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 10:41:02 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] xorg.conf missing Message-ID: <7174122.QzMxVflYyR@gjn.priv.at> Hello, Is this "normal" in SLES 12 that we have no xorg.conf, I found only a xorg.conf.install in /etc/X11 (?) after the installation. -- mit freundlichen Gr??en / best Regards, G?nther J. Niederwimmer From dvosburg at suse.com Mon Apr 21 07:25:40 2014 From: dvosburg at suse.com (Donald Vosburg) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 07:25:40 -0600 Subject: [sles-beta] xorg.conf missing In-Reply-To: <7174122.QzMxVflYyR@gjn.priv.at> References: <7174122.QzMxVflYyR@gjn.priv.at> Message-ID: <5354C7F4020000C20014B353@prv-mh.provo.novell.com> Yes, this is normal for newer (dynamic) xorg configuration. The system detects video and attempts to display based on that detection. Thus the now-deprecated sax2 application is unnecessary. You can override this with the static files under /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ if necessary - but the design is for it to work without a fixed /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Don Vosburg Sales Engineer SUSE Linux dvosburg at suse.com cell 765.278.2505 >>> G?nther J.Niederwimmer 04/21/14 4:41 AM >>> Hello, Is this "normal" in SLES 12 that we have no xorg.conf, I found only a xorg.conf.install in /etc/X11 (?) after the installation. -- mit freundlichen Gr??en / best Regards, G?nther J. Niederwimmer _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mpost at suse.com Mon Apr 21 09:44:10 2014 From: mpost at suse.com (Mark Post) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 09:44:10 -0600 Subject: [sles-beta] Zypper missing symlink In-Reply-To: <34104813.bdloR8lx2T@gjn.priv.at> References: <34104813.bdloR8lx2T@gjn.priv.at> Message-ID: <5355048A0200006D0015D8F3@prv-mh.provo.novell.com> >>> On 4/20/2014 at 11:45 AM, G?nther J.Niederwimmer wrote: > Hello, > > when I make a zypper ve I have a warning message? > > zypper ve > Warnung:The /etc/products.d/baseproduct symlink is dangling or missing! > The link must point to your core products .prod file in /etc/products.d. That's a known problem and being worked on. Manually creating the symbolic link is the workaround until we have a fix. Mark Post From jrd at netlab1.net Mon Apr 21 11:55:34 2014 From: jrd at netlab1.net (Joe Doupnik) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:55:34 +0100 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools Message-ID: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> There seems to be a problem with SLES beta 5 and installation of VMware tools (ESXi 5.5 U1). After many attempts at installing the tools by normal means I asked the installer to remove the open-vm material. The VMware installer still got stuck. I went into YaST and removed open-vm-*. No progress. Each time the VMware installer goes to sleep when building kmods. Finally I told the installer to not attempt automatic updating (open-vm is gone) and the process completed. However, vmware-tools status and the ESXi screen shows tools to be not running. Restarting the vmware-tools service did not help. What does not help in such work is the nearly total hiding of which services are available and their state. Yes, I know, there is a long talky command which, alas, completely slips my mind. The last time I tried it the screen scrolled and scrolled, not good for mere humans. The more direct /etc/init.d/ file listing is much more direct and useful. I will go through this whole process again with a fresh installation, on the off chance that I did something peculiar. Thanks, Joe D. From allen at ua.edu Mon Apr 21 13:18:34 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 19:18:34 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] MariaDB packages discussion Message-ID: I notice that the packages for MariaDB that are provided so far are: mariadb mariadb-client mariadb-tools mariadb-errormessages Will the package for the MariaDB Galera cluster software be available? >From what I can tell, the mariadb-galera package is being provided by Ubuntu and possibly Debian. The MariaDB folks are providing a Yum repo for RHEL/CentOS that includes it, but it is not available (that I can find) for SLES 11.x, in the 12.x betas, or in OpenSUSE 13.1. I've also checked the server:database repo on the OpenSUSE Build Service, and it is not included for the 5.5.x or 10.x line. Is there an official word on whether this package will be included? We've already migrated to running MariaDB on SLES 11.x (using the builds in server:database), and I would rather not have to compile from source or run on another distro to use Galera. I suppose I could take a shot at building/maintaining my own rpm, but it seems like something that should be provided, if the direction is toward MariaDB and away from MySQL. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama From mge at suse.com Tue Apr 22 00:26:18 2014 From: mge at suse.com (Matthias G. Eckermann) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 08:26:18 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] MariaDB packages discussion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140422062618.GA4314@suse.com> Hello Allen and all, On 2014-04-21 T 19:18 +0000 Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I notice that the packages for MariaDB that are > provided so far are: > mariadb > mariadb-client > mariadb-tools > mariadb-errormessages > Will the package for the MariaDB Galera cluster > software be available? > > From what I can tell, the mariadb-galera package is > being provided by Ubuntu and possibly Debian. The > MariaDB folks are providing a Yum repo for RHEL/CentOS > that includes it, but it is not available (that I can > find) for SLES 11.x, in the 12.x betas, or in OpenSUSE > 13.1. I've also checked the server:database repo on > the OpenSUSE Build Service, and it is not included for > the 5.5.x or 10.x line. > > Is there an official word on whether this package will > be included? We've already migrated to running > MariaDB on SLES 11.x (using the builds in > server:database), and I would rather not have to > compile from source or run on another distro to use > Galera. I suppose I could take a shot at > building/maintaining my own rpm, but it seems like > something that should be provided, if the direction is > toward MariaDB and away from MySQL. we are currently not planning to add mariadb-galera as part of SLES (neither as part of SLE HA at the moment), but I will take your input to discuss, if and how packages of mariadb-galera will be made available for SUSE Linux Enterprise 12. Thanks! so long - MgE -- Matthias G. Eckermann Senior Product Manager SUSE? Linux Enterprise Phone: +49 30 44315731 Mobile: +49 179 2949448 E-Mail: mge at suse.com SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstra?e 5 90409 N?rnberg Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) From jrd at netlab1.net Tue Apr 22 06:42:16 2014 From: jrd at netlab1.net (Joe Doupnik) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:42:16 +0100 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> Message-ID: <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> Returning to this particular VMware-tools item today. Two points. 1. The ESXi v5.5 provided VMware tools will not install. The selected o/s type was other 64-bit. 2. The third party open-vm-tools item is installed but not activated. Much searching high and low for what to do. Finally I found rcvmtoolsd hidden away. That did no good. Resort to YaST, Services, find the item, ENABLE it (why, for gosh sakes, cannot the rc script accept enable/disable as command verbs?), start it. Now ESXi is happier. Thus far I must award many points to SUSE and the systemd folks for providing an enduring treasure hunt. Alas, one also needs to do real work now and then. Joe D. On 21/04/2014 18:55, Joe Doupnik wrote: > There seems to be a problem with SLES beta 5 and installation of > VMware tools (ESXi 5.5 U1). After many attempts at installing the > tools by normal means I asked the installer to remove the open-vm > material. The VMware installer still got stuck. I went into YaST and > removed open-vm-*. No progress. Each time the VMware installer goes to > sleep when building kmods. > Finally I told the installer to not attempt automatic updating > (open-vm is gone) and the process completed. However, vmware-tools > status and the ESXi screen shows tools to be not running. Restarting > the vmware-tools service did not help. > What does not help in such work is the nearly total hiding of > which services are available and their state. Yes, I know, there is a > long talky command which, alas, completely slips my mind. The last > time I tried it the screen scrolled and scrolled, not good for mere > humans. The more direct /etc/init.d/ file listing is much more direct > and useful. > I will go through this whole process again with a fresh > installation, on the off chance that I did something peculiar. > Thanks, > Joe D. > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta From uwedr at suse.com Tue Apr 22 07:11:24 2014 From: uwedr at suse.com (Uwe Drechsel) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:11:24 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> Message-ID: <20140422131124.GI5568@suse.de> On Tue, Apr 22, Joe Doupnik wrote: > Returning to this particular VMware-tools item today. > Two points. > 1. The ESXi v5.5 provided VMware tools will not install. The > selected o/s type was other 64-bit. > 2. The third party open-vm-tools item is installed but not > activated. Much searching high and low for what to do. Finally I > found rcvmtoolsd hidden away. That did no good. Resort to YaST, > Services, find the item, ENABLE it (why, for gosh sakes, cannot the > rc script accept enable/disable as command verbs?), start it. Now > ESXi is happier. It intentionally was not enabled per default in Beta 5. Now after an audit by the sec team, we have green light to enable it in Beta 6. Thanks Uwe -- Uwe Drechsel Project Manager SUSE Linux Products GmbH GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) From jrd at netlab1.net Tue Apr 22 07:13:11 2014 From: jrd at netlab1.net (Joe Doupnik) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 14:13:11 +0100 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <20140422131124.GI5568@suse.de> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> <20140422131124.GI5568@suse.de> Message-ID: <53566AE7.80004@netlab1.net> Ah so, our spring time SSL entertainment situation. Good on your security team for jumping on this even deep in SLES. Joe D. On 22/04/2014 14:11, Uwe Drechsel wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, Joe Doupnik wrote: > >> Returning to this particular VMware-tools item today. >> Two points. >> 1. The ESXi v5.5 provided VMware tools will not install. The >> selected o/s type was other 64-bit. >> 2. The third party open-vm-tools item is installed but not >> activated. Much searching high and low for what to do. Finally I >> found rcvmtoolsd hidden away. That did no good. Resort to YaST, >> Services, find the item, ENABLE it (why, for gosh sakes, cannot the >> rc script accept enable/disable as command verbs?), start it. Now >> ESXi is happier. > It intentionally was not enabled per default in Beta 5. Now after an > audit by the sec team, we have green light to enable it in Beta 6. > > Thanks > Uwe > > -- > Uwe Drechsel > Project Manager > SUSE Linux Products GmbH > GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta From allen at ua.edu Tue Apr 22 11:41:48 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 17:41:48 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] MariaDB packages discussion In-Reply-To: <20140422062618.GA4314@suse.com> References: , <20140422062618.GA4314@suse.com> Message-ID: Thanks for checking. It would be great to have it available, even if it is not officially supported - especially since it seems to be available for every distro but SUSE. In the meantime, I suppose I should start seeing if I can get it to build in the openSUSE Build Service. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: Matthias G. Eckermann [mge at suse.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 1:26 AM To: Beddingfield, Allen; sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: Re: [sles-beta] MariaDB packages discussion Hello Allen and all, On 2014-04-21 T 19:18 +0000 Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I notice that the packages for MariaDB that are > provided so far are: > mariadb > mariadb-client > mariadb-tools > mariadb-errormessages > Will the package for the MariaDB Galera cluster > software be available? > > From what I can tell, the mariadb-galera package is > being provided by Ubuntu and possibly Debian. The > MariaDB folks are providing a Yum repo for RHEL/CentOS > that includes it, but it is not available (that I can > find) for SLES 11.x, in the 12.x betas, or in OpenSUSE > 13.1. I've also checked the server:database repo on > the OpenSUSE Build Service, and it is not included for > the 5.5.x or 10.x line. > > Is there an official word on whether this package will > be included? We've already migrated to running > MariaDB on SLES 11.x (using the builds in > server:database), and I would rather not have to > compile from source or run on another distro to use > Galera. I suppose I could take a shot at > building/maintaining my own rpm, but it seems like > something that should be provided, if the direction is > toward MariaDB and away from MySQL. we are currently not planning to add mariadb-galera as part of SLES (neither as part of SLE HA at the moment), but I will take your input to discuss, if and how packages of mariadb-galera will be made available for SUSE Linux Enterprise 12. Thanks! so long - MgE -- Matthias G. Eckermann Senior Product Manager SUSE? Linux Enterprise Phone: +49 30 44315731 Mobile: +49 179 2949448 E-Mail: mge at suse.com SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstra?e 5 90409 N?rnberg Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) From kukuk at suse.de Wed Apr 23 01:44:08 2014 From: kukuk at suse.de (Thorsten Kukuk) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 09:44:08 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> <53569D8D.8040204@suse.com> <53569F99.30702@netlab1.net> <5356B3C9.1020809@netlab1.net> <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> Message-ID: <20140423074408.GA27240@suse.de> Hi, On Wed, Apr 23, urs.frey at post.ch wrote: > Hi > I fully agree with Joe > I mean I use VMwareTools coming together with the specific ESXi release for good reasons for years now on different Linux distributions. > Now with SLES12 beta I am kind of "urged" to use open-vm-tools which obviously do not match the VMware environment I have here. Please be realistic: SLES12 is in development. VMware will not adjust their products and tools before SLES12 is finalized or shortly before. For the plans of VMware in regards to SLES12, you need to ask VMware. We cannot tell you anything about their schedule nor support plans beside what we wrote here. We don't own VMware. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Senior Architect SLES & Common Code Base SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) From jrd at netlab1.net Wed Apr 23 01:51:30 2014 From: jrd at netlab1.net (Joe Doupnik) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 08:51:30 +0100 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <20140423074408.GA27240@suse.de> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> <53569D8D.8040204@suse.com> <53569F99.30702@netlab1.net> <5356B3C9.1020809@netlab1.net> <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> <20140423074408.GA27240@suse.de> Message-ID: <53577102.4010806@netlab1.net> True, yet we don't know what is going on. Our concern is plainly that the situation might be permanent rather than a passing phase in the development cycle. What did change though was the SLES side of the equation, whether that be in the upstream kernel or in SLES proper or just a bug. Presumably SUSE talks with VMware about such things. Thanks, Joe D. On 23/04/2014 08:44, Thorsten Kukuk wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Apr 23, urs.frey at post.ch wrote: > >> Hi >> I fully agree with Joe >> I mean I use VMwareTools coming together with the specific ESXi release for good reasons for years now on different Linux distributions. >> Now with SLES12 beta I am kind of "urged" to use open-vm-tools which obviously do not match the VMware environment I have here. > Please be realistic: SLES12 is in development. VMware will not > adjust their products and tools before SLES12 is finalized or shortly > before. > For the plans of VMware in regards to SLES12, you need to ask VMware. > We cannot tell you anything about their schedule nor support plans > beside what we wrote here. > We don't own VMware. > > Thorsten > From mge at suse.com Wed Apr 23 01:51:15 2014 From: mge at suse.com (Matthias G. Eckermann) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 09:51:15 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <53577102.4010806@netlab1.net> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> <53569D8D.8040204@suse.com> <53569F99.30702@netlab1.net> <5356B3C9.1020809@netlab1.net> <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> <20140423074408.GA27240@suse.de> <53577102.4010806@netlab1.net> Message-ID: <20140423075115.GA7251@suse.com> On 2014-04-23 T 08:51 +0100 Joe Doupnik wrote: > Presumably SUSE talks with VMware about such things. Yes, we do. so long - MgE -- Matthias G. Eckermann Senior Product Manager SUSE? Linux Enterprise Phone: +49 30 44315731 Mobile: +49 179 2949448 E-Mail: mge at suse.com SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstra?e 5 90409 N?rnberg Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) From allen at ua.edu Wed Apr 23 07:27:57 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:27:57 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> <53569D8D.8040204@suse.com> <53569F99.30702@netlab1.net> <5356B3C9.1020809@netlab1.net>, <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> Message-ID: I'm having a hard time understanding why there is such concern here. VMware supporting the open-vm-tools is preferable to me. I can then use SUSE Manager to also manage my vm tools, instead of having to rely on VMware for such things. I actually have a script that currently does this, instead of using VMware's interface, but if the functionality is the same, installing/updating is easier, and VMware doesn't care/supports it, I don't see a problem. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________ From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of urs.frey at post.ch [urs.frey at post.ch] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:04 AM To: jrd at netlab1.net; sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools Hi I fully agree with Joe I mean I use VMwareTools coming together with the specific ESXi release for good reasons for years now on different Linux distributions. Now with SLES12 beta I am kind of ?urged? to use open-vm-tools which obviously do not match the VMware environment I have here. Wouldn?t it be a solution to leave the final decision about which VMware Tools to use to the end user? So I may choose to install what comes with SLES or I can also use what gets delivered from ESXi. Therefore no automated installations anymore together with SLES12. We do not know what the plans on VMware are. For the moment, the statements of VMware about open-vm-tools do not really convince me. http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 Best regards Urs Frey Post CH AG Informationstechnologie IT Betrieb Webergutstrasse 12 3030 Bern (Zollikofen) Telefon : ++41 (0)58 338 58 70 FAX : ++41 (0)58 667 30 07 E-Mail: urs.frey at post.ch Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Joe Doupnik Gesendet: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:24 PM An: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools Keeping a perspective on this. There is now a gulf between SLES v12 beta 5 and the VMware tools (o/s kind other 64-bit) provided with ESXi v5. The VMware software stalls while making kmods. That's all observational evidence. What we don't know is what changed. I will presume that the SLES (including kernel) part has, for probably good reasons, and that sooner or later VMware will issue tools for the v12 level of SLES. But that is only my guessing. What remains unconvincing is saying VMware recommends the open-vmware tools. Lots of room to interpret what is said by whom and in what context. The evidence says VMware ships their own tools rather than the open-vmware ones. Folks with contractual details may well be concerned, but we give the betas a chance to develop further before jumping to firm conclusions. Joe D. On 22/04/2014 17:58, Joe Doupnik wrote: vCenter is a high priced separate management product. I do not have it. ESXi servers have their own set of VMware tools. We click on the vSphere client to request they be installed in a VM. They match the particular version of ESXi. They don't work with beta 5, which means there are two branches of tools and the vendor's branch has been made inoperable. The open-vmware-tools item has had a rather chequered history. I have no good reason to trust that item very far (at this time). Now the branches are really separated. Not a comfortable situation. Joe D. On 22/04/2014 17:49, Kai Dupke wrote: On 04/22/2014 02:42 PM, Joe Doupnik wrote: Returning to this particular VMware-tools item today. Two points. [...] The open-vm-tools on SLES are the tools VMware recommends for the use. With "3rd party" you refer to the display in the Virtual Center I assume. Bo Dang form VMware commented on this earlier: Thanks for this info and keep contacting us! As john metnioned in another thread "The intent of the message was to communicate that end users do not need to worry about installing/updating VMware tools centrally from vCenter. Instead users are expected to use OS package manager to maintain vmware tools or open-vm-tools. We published the following KB article to clarify that open-vm-tools are "supported" and there is a FAQ at the bottom about this message at http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 " and we are planning to change message in the future to remove "3rd Party" and instead say something like "Guest Managed" to reduce user concerns. greetings Kai Dupke Senior Product Manager Server Product Line _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta From jrd at netlab1.net Wed Apr 23 07:42:53 2014 From: jrd at netlab1.net (Joe Doupnik) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:42:53 +0100 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> <53569D8D.8040204@suse.com> <53569F99.30702@netlab1.net> <5356B3C9.1020809@netlab1.net>, <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> Message-ID: <5357C35D.60701@netlab1.net> The key word is "if". We don't know that. There are various versions of VMware hypervisor in use, little is known about how the open-vmware tools fit into that puzzle and what it does/does not support in the way of features. Let's look at this geometrically, for welcomed relief. There is VMware, there are SUSE virtual machines, and sandwiched between is a set of tools. There are two interfaces involved. At the moment VMware-tools matches the hypervisor version of choice. The third party open-vmware offering hopefully (that ambiguous word) works with both sides today (not necessarily true in the recent past), yet it is a third party to be coordinated with the other two by means still unknown. The SUSE part of things changed so that the VMware tools will not build with our v12 beta 5 material; again the reasons are unknown. How this situation will evolve during our beta is also unknown. Which of these approaches offers least risk and broad version coverage? Risk includes what the vendors involved will accept as a proper systems component when fingers are pointed. That's a description of what is concerning us about this situation. Joe D. On 23/04/2014 14:27, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I'm having a hard time understanding why there is such concern here. VMware supporting the open-vm-tools is preferable to me. I can then use SUSE Manager to also manage my vm tools, instead of having to rely on VMware for such things. I actually have a script that currently does this, instead of using VMware's interface, but if the functionality is the same, installing/updating is easier, and VMware doesn't care/supports it, I don't see a problem. > > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > ________________________________ > From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of urs.frey at post.ch [urs.frey at post.ch] > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:04 AM > To: jrd at netlab1.net; sles-beta at lists.suse.com > Subject: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools > > Hi > I fully agree with Joe > I mean I use VMwareTools coming together with the specific ESXi release for good reasons for years now on different Linux distributions. > Now with SLES12 beta I am kind of ?urged? to use open-vm-tools which obviously do not match the VMware environment I have here. > > Wouldn?t it be a solution to leave the final decision about which VMware Tools to use to the end user? > > So I may choose to install what comes with SLES or I can also use what gets delivered from ESXi. > Therefore no automated installations anymore together with SLES12. > > We do not know what the plans on VMware are. > For the moment, the statements of VMware about open-vm-tools do not really convince me. > http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 > > Best regards > > Urs Frey > Post CH AG > Informationstechnologie > IT Betrieb > Webergutstrasse 12 > 3030 Bern (Zollikofen) > Telefon : ++41 (0)58 338 58 70 > FAX : ++41 (0)58 667 30 07 > E-Mail: urs.frey at post.ch > > Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Joe Doupnik > Gesendet: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:24 PM > An: sles-beta at lists.suse.com > Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools > > Keeping a perspective on this. There is now a gulf between SLES v12 beta 5 and the VMware tools (o/s kind other 64-bit) provided with ESXi v5. The VMware software stalls while making kmods. That's all observational evidence. What we don't know is what changed. I will presume that the SLES (including kernel) part has, for probably good reasons, and that sooner or later VMware will issue tools for the v12 level of SLES. But that is only my guessing. > What remains unconvincing is saying VMware recommends the open-vmware tools. Lots of room to interpret what is said by whom and in what context. The evidence says VMware ships their own tools rather than the open-vmware ones. Folks with contractual details may well be concerned, but we give the betas a chance to develop further before jumping to firm conclusions. > Joe D. > > On 22/04/2014 17:58, Joe Doupnik wrote: > vCenter is a high priced separate management product. I do not have it. ESXi servers have their own set of VMware tools. We click on the vSphere client to request they be installed in a VM. They match the particular version of ESXi. They don't work with beta 5, which means there are two branches of tools and the vendor's branch has been made inoperable. The open-vmware-tools item has had a rather chequered history. I have no good reason to trust that item very far (at this time). Now the branches are really separated. Not a comfortable situation. > Joe D. > > On 22/04/2014 17:49, Kai Dupke wrote: > > On 04/22/2014 02:42 PM, Joe Doupnik wrote: > > Returning to this particular VMware-tools item today. > > Two points. > > [...] > > > > The open-vm-tools on SLES are the tools VMware recommends for the use. > > With "3rd party" you refer to the display in the Virtual Center I assume. > > > > Bo Dang form VMware commented on this earlier: > > > > Thanks for this info and keep contacting us! As john metnioned in another thread "The intent of the message was to communicate that end users do not need to worry about installing/updating VMware tools centrally from vCenter. Instead users are expected to use OS package manager to maintain vmware tools or open-vm-tools. We published the following KB article to clarify that open-vm-tools are "supported" and there is a FAQ at the bottom about this message at http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 " and we are planning to change message in the future to remove "3rd Party" and instead say something like "Guest Managed" to reduce user concerns. > > > > greetings > > Kai Dupke > > Senior Product Manager > > Server Product Line > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sles-beta mailing list > > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sles-beta mailing list > > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta From urs.frey at post.ch Wed Apr 23 08:07:40 2014 From: urs.frey at post.ch (urs.frey at post.ch) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:07:40 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <5357C35D.60701@netlab1.net> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <535663A8.30204@netlab1.net> <53569D8D.8040204@suse.com> <53569F99.30702@netlab1.net> <5356B3C9.1020809@netlab1.net>, <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> <5357C35D.60701@netlab1.net> Message-ID: <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFDA9@HXMB12.pnet.ch> Thanks Joe Torsten also noted: There is still development work going on. So there is a chance to get a simpler solution working. But: we are running high production services as SLES clients on VMWare here. No malfunction allowed in the "sandwich " layer called VMware Tools. Else fingers of the CEO's do point to the system administrator not having installed what is certified and supported by VMware. So we need two things: Well working VMware Tools and the full certification and support of these VMware Tools from VMware on the specific ESXi release for the specific SUSE release. Best regards Urs Frey????????????????????????????????????????????? Post CH AG Informationstechnologie IT Betrieb Webergutstrasse 12 3030 Bern (Zollikofen) Telefon : ++41 (0)58 338 58 70 FAX???? : ++41 (0)58 667 30 07 E-Mail:?? urs.frey at post.ch -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Joe Doupnik Gesendet: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:43 PM An: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools The key word is "if". We don't know that. There are various versions of VMware hypervisor in use, little is known about how the open-vmware tools fit into that puzzle and what it does/does not support in the way of features. Let's look at this geometrically, for welcomed relief. There is VMware, there are SUSE virtual machines, and sandwiched between is a set of tools. There are two interfaces involved. At the moment VMware-tools matches the hypervisor version of choice. The third party open-vmware offering hopefully (that ambiguous word) works with both sides today (not necessarily true in the recent past), yet it is a third party to be coordinated with the other two by means still unknown. The SUSE part of things changed so that the VMware tools will not build with our v12 beta 5 material; again the reasons are unknown. How this situation will evolve during our beta is also unknown. Which of these approaches offers least risk and broad version coverage? Risk includes what the vendors involved will accept as a proper systems component when fingers are pointed. That's a description of what is concerning us about this situation. Joe D. On 23/04/2014 14:27, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I'm having a hard time understanding why there is such concern here. VMware supporting the open-vm-tools is preferable to me. I can then use SUSE Manager to also manage my vm tools, instead of having to rely on VMware for such things. I actually have a script that currently does this, instead of using VMware's interface, but if the functionality is the same, installing/updating is easier, and VMware doesn't care/supports it, I don't see a problem. > > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > ________________________________ > From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of urs.frey at post.ch [urs.frey at post.ch] > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:04 AM > To: jrd at netlab1.net; sles-beta at lists.suse.com > Subject: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools > > Hi > I fully agree with Joe > I mean I use VMwareTools coming together with the specific ESXi release for good reasons for years now on different Linux distributions. > Now with SLES12 beta I am kind of "urged" to use open-vm-tools which obviously do not match the VMware environment I have here. > > Wouldn't it be a solution to leave the final decision about which VMware Tools to use to the end user? > > So I may choose to install what comes with SLES or I can also use what gets delivered from ESXi. > Therefore no automated installations anymore together with SLES12. > > We do not know what the plans on VMware are. > For the moment, the statements of VMware about open-vm-tools do not really convince me. > http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 > > Best regards > > Urs Frey > Post CH AG > Informationstechnologie > IT Betrieb > Webergutstrasse 12 > 3030 Bern (Zollikofen) > Telefon : ++41 (0)58 338 58 70 > FAX : ++41 (0)58 667 30 07 > E-Mail: urs.frey at post.ch > > Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Joe Doupnik > Gesendet: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:24 PM > An: sles-beta at lists.suse.com > Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools > > Keeping a perspective on this. There is now a gulf between SLES v12 beta 5 and the VMware tools (o/s kind other 64-bit) provided with ESXi v5. The VMware software stalls while making kmods. That's all observational evidence. What we don't know is what changed. I will presume that the SLES (including kernel) part has, for probably good reasons, and that sooner or later VMware will issue tools for the v12 level of SLES. But that is only my guessing. > What remains unconvincing is saying VMware recommends the open-vmware tools. Lots of room to interpret what is said by whom and in what context. The evidence says VMware ships their own tools rather than the open-vmware ones. Folks with contractual details may well be concerned, but we give the betas a chance to develop further before jumping to firm conclusions. > Joe D. > > On 22/04/2014 17:58, Joe Doupnik wrote: > vCenter is a high priced separate management product. I do not have it. ESXi servers have their own set of VMware tools. We click on the vSphere client to request they be installed in a VM. They match the particular version of ESXi. They don't work with beta 5, which means there are two branches of tools and the vendor's branch has been made inoperable. The open-vmware-tools item has had a rather chequered history. I have no good reason to trust that item very far (at this time). Now the branches are really separated. Not a comfortable situation. > Joe D. > > On 22/04/2014 17:49, Kai Dupke wrote: > > On 04/22/2014 02:42 PM, Joe Doupnik wrote: > > Returning to this particular VMware-tools item today. > > Two points. > > [...] > > > > The open-vm-tools on SLES are the tools VMware recommends for the use. > > With "3rd party" you refer to the display in the Virtual Center I assume. > > > > Bo Dang form VMware commented on this earlier: > > > > Thanks for this info and keep contacting us! As john metnioned in another thread "The intent of the message was to communicate that end users do not need to worry about installing/updating VMware tools centrally from vCenter. Instead users are expected to use OS package manager to maintain vmware tools or open-vm-tools. We published the following KB article to clarify that open-vm-tools are "supported" and there is a FAQ at the bottom about this message at http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 " and we are planning to change message in the future to remove "3rd Party" and instead say something like "Guest Managed" to reduce user concerns. > > > > greetings > > Kai Dupke > > Senior Product Manager > > Server Product Line > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sles-beta mailing list > > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sles-beta mailing list > > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Wed Apr 23 14:21:57 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 16:21:57 -0400 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? Message-ID: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> I'm just getting started testing, and when I went into the software configuration, it appears only to have Gnome available. I use KDE exclusively in my linux workstation environment, which is my primary desktop. All of my current server installations have KDE. I find Gnome pretty unusable, so I'm hoping KDE will be available by the time SLES12 is released. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com From allen at ua.edu Wed Apr 23 14:27:40 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 20:27:40 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: Hi James, I didn't realize you were on here! This one got hashed out pretty early on... apparently the decision has been made the Gnome will be the one/only desktop for SLES/SLED in version 12. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of James Taylor [James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:21 PM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? I'm just getting started testing, and when I went into the software configuration, it appears only to have Gnome available. I use KDE exclusively in my linux workstation environment, which is my primary desktop. All of my current server installations have KDE. I find Gnome pretty unusable, so I'm hoping KDE will be available by the time SLES12 is released. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Wed Apr 23 15:53:19 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 17:53:19 -0400 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> This is really bad news. All of the servers I support are using KDe for their GUI, and I run it exclusively as my primary desktop. I find Gnome to be nearly unusable as a productivity interface. Has there been any thought about what effect that will have on upgrading servers with only KDE installed? -jt >>> "Beddingfield, Allen" 4/23/2014 4:27 PM >>> Hi James, I didn't realize you were on here! This one got hashed out pretty early on... apparently the decision has been made the Gnome will be the one/only desktop for SLES/SLED in version 12. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of James Taylor [James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:21 PM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? I'm just getting started testing, and when I went into the software configuration, it appears only to have Gnome available. I use KDE exclusively in my linux workstation environment, which is my primary desktop. All of my current server installations have KDE. I find Gnome pretty unusable, so I'm hoping KDE will be available by the time SLES12 is released. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=48305&srvid=16vl15t From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Wed Apr 23 15:55:42 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 17:55:42 -0400 Subject: [sles-beta] List index available? Message-ID: <5357FE9E02000075000477CE@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Is there a mailing list index I can reference so that I don't ask a lot of questions that have already been answered? -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com From jlindholm at suse.com Wed Apr 23 18:30:19 2014 From: jlindholm at suse.com (Jeff Lindholm) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:30:19 -0600 Subject: [sles-beta] List index available? In-Reply-To: <5357FE9E02000075000477CE@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> References: <5357FE9E02000075000477CE@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: <535822DB020000AE001727BB@prv-mh.provo.novell.com> Hi James, At the bottom of the page referenced below, you may request a password reminder for your listserver account: http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta Mailing list archives may then be accessed here: http://lists.suse.com/mailman/private/sles-beta/ The SLED mailing list is also available - just modify the URLs. Regards, - Jeff Jeff Lindholm Sales Engineer SUSE >>> On 4/23/2014 at 05:55 PM, "James Taylor" wrote: > Is there a mailing list index I can reference so that I don't ask a lot of > questions that have already been answered? > -jt > > > > James Taylor > 678-697-9420 > james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Wed Apr 23 20:03:50 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:03:50 -0400 Subject: [sles-beta] password Message-ID: <535838C60200007500047806@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> From bdang at vmware.com Wed Apr 23 22:05:03 2014 From: bdang at vmware.com (Bo Dang) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 21:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <5357E647.1070603@netlab1.net> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <53569F99.30702@netlab1.net> <5356B3C9.1020809@netlab1.net> <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> <5357C35D.60701@netlab1.net> <5357D093.8030104@suse.com> <5357E647.1070603@netlab1.net> Message-ID: <589429196.9770799.1398312303741.JavaMail.root@vmware.com> Hi Kai,Joe,urs, allen, mge, Thorsten, uwe and all, Thanks a lot for your comments and concerns for open-vm-tools. I am copying John who might have more info in this list. We are working closely with SUSE with related items. Such as, you might know that toolsd service from open-vm-tools in current build will not be started automatically and you need to execute "sudo systemctl enable vmtoolsd" and "sudo systemctl start vmtoolsd" to start its service manually. Legacy tools service doesn't work well in current build , you will be suggested to remove some packages for "open-vm-tools" first for its legacy tools installation. Such as packages "open-vm-tools","open-vm-desktop" and "libvmtools0" Don't hesitate to let us know for any related issues :) Thanks again for all your supports and suggestions! Best Regards, Bo Dang bdang at vmware.com Level 8 South Wing of Tower C Raycom InfoTech Park No. 2 Kexueyuan South Road Haidian District Beijing, 100190, People's Republic of China +86-10-5993-4242 Office +86-10-5993-4205 Fax From: "Joe Doupnik" To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 12:11:51 AM Subject: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools Kai, Thanks for taking the time to write up this situation. The story appears to be better than I had thought. Joe D. On 23/04/2014 15:39, Kai Dupke wrote: VMware already made a statement on this list before, but I asked them to clarify again. The open-vm-tools are maintained by VMware but organized as an open source project. SLES 12 include the tools because VMware as partner asked us to include them, which is a good fit to our guest story. The today situation is an interim situation as with chicken-egg, because VMware can't drop the tools from the ESX product as SLES 11 for example does not contain the open-vm-tools at the moment. At the same time VMware can't just change the wording as the open-vm-tools are, open available for each to rebuild and grab, which could lead to false positive display. My understanding is that VMware will change the message to something like 'guest provided' in the display of the client, without any 3rd party or other confusion statement. We also work with VMware to get the support finalized in a way that these package will be tagged as fully supported. greetings kai On 04/23/2014 03:42 PM, Joe Doupnik wrote:
The key word is "if". We don't know that. There are various versions of VMware hypervisor in use, little is known about how the open-vmware tools fit into that puzzle and what it does/does not support in the way of features. Let's look at this geometrically, for welcomed relief. There is VMware, there are SUSE virtual machines, and sandwiched between is a set of tools. There are two interfaces involved. At the moment VMware-tools matches the hypervisor version of choice. The third party open-vmware offering hopefully (that ambiguous word) works with both sides today (not necessarily true in the recent past), yet it is a third party to be coordinated with the other two by means still unknown. The SUSE part of things changed so that the VMware tools will not build with our v12 beta 5 material; again the reasons are unknown. How this situation will evolve during our beta is also unknown. Which of these approaches offers least risk and broad version coverage? Risk includes what the vendors involved will accept as a proper systems component when fingers are pointed. That's a description of what is concerning us about this situation. Joe D. On 23/04/2014 14:27, Beddingfield, Allen wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding why there is such concern here. VMware supporting the open-vm-tools is preferable to me. I can then use SUSE Manager to also manage my vm tools, instead of having to rely on VMware for such things. I actually have a script that currently does this, instead of using VMware's interface, but if the functionality is the same, installing/updating is easier, and VMware doesn't care/supports it, I don't see a problem. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________ From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [ sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com ] on behalf of urs.frey at post.ch [ urs.frey at post.ch ] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:04 AM To: jrd at netlab1.net ; sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools Hi I fully agree with Joe I mean I use VMwareTools coming together with the specific ESXi release for good reasons for years now on different Linux distributions. Now with SLES12 beta I am kind of ?urged? to use open-vm-tools which obviously do not match the VMware environment I have here. Wouldn?t it be a solution to leave the final decision about which VMware Tools to use to the end user? So I may choose to install what comes with SLES or I can also use what gets delivered from ESXi. Therefore no automated installations anymore together with SLES12. We do not know what the plans on VMware are. For the moment, the statements of VMware about open-vm-tools do not really convince me. http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 Best regards Urs Frey Post CH AG Informationstechnologie IT Betrieb Webergutstrasse 12 3030 Bern (Zollikofen) Telefon : ++41 (0)58 338 58 70 FAX : ++41 (0)58 667 30 07 E-Mail: urs.frey at post.ch Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [ mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com ] Im Auftrag von Joe Doupnik Gesendet: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:24 PM An: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools Keeping a perspective on this. There is now a gulf between SLES v12 beta 5 and the VMware tools (o/s kind other 64-bit) provided with ESXi v5. The VMware software stalls while making kmods. That's all observational evidence. What we don't know is what changed. I will presume that the SLES (including kernel) part has, for probably good reasons, and that sooner or later VMware will issue tools for the v12 level of SLES. But that is only my guessing. What remains unconvincing is saying VMware recommends the open-vmware tools. Lots of room to interpret what is said by whom and in what context. The evidence says VMware ships their own tools rather than the open-vmware ones. Folks with contractual details may well be concerned, but we give the betas a chance to develop further before jumping to firm conclusions. Joe D. On 22/04/2014 17:58, Joe Doupnik wrote: vCenter is a high priced separate management product. I do not have it. ESXi servers have their own set of VMware tools. We click on the vSphere client to request they be installed in a VM. They match the particular version of ESXi. They don't work with beta 5, which means there are two branches of tools and the vendor's branch has been made inoperable. The open-vmware-tools item has had a rather chequered history. I have no good reason to trust that item very far (at this time). Now the branches are really separated. Not a comfortable situation. Joe D. On 22/04/2014 17:49, Kai Dupke wrote: On 04/22/2014 02:42 PM, Joe Doupnik wrote: Returning to this particular VMware-tools item today. Two points. [...] The open-vm-tools on SLES are the tools VMware recommends for the use. With "3rd party" you refer to the display in the Virtual Center I assume. Bo Dang form VMware commented on this earlier: Thanks for this info and keep contacting us! As john metnioned in another thread "The intent of the message was to communicate that end users do not need to worry about installing/updating VMware tools centrally from vCenter. Instead users are expected to use OS package manager to maintain vmware tools or open-vm-tools. We published the following KB article to clarify that open-vm-tools are "supported" and there is a FAQ at the bottom about this message at http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 " and we are planning to change message in the future to remove "3rd Party" and instead say something like "Guest Managed" to reduce user concerns. greetings Kai Dupke Senior Product Manager Server Product Line _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta
Kai Dupke Senior Product Manager Server Product Line _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta
_______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta&k=oIvRg1%2BdGAgOoM1BIlLLqw%3D%3D%0A&r=UKSbxMIYAkSEPzTbqdSR3w%3D%3D%0A&m=Goy90RdVnDoah1DqAcU%2FY4wIeNaUOekKlMW5tzzxFbM%3D%0A&s=7b6d5b27e8ec4744ae0d5b34b6e6b428ea8ee75bda2b98e2402e59d6fe304c66 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dick.Waite at softwareag.com Wed Apr 23 23:58:33 2014 From: Dick.Waite at softwareag.com (Waite, Dick) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 05:58:33 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A77A2@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> Grand New Day, The demises of KDE on SUSE is bad news. KDE is supported on the new RHEL v7 going through beta at the moment. You will also find that as of SLE 12 SP-0 Beta5 you can not "Upgrade" from a simple SLE 11 SP3 which makes testing for us very hard as the items we wish to test are on SLE 11 SP-3 machines that I wish to Upgrade. Could be interesting if the Upgrade works at RC1 and that's the time we can really check-out SLE12 SP-0 There are some looking at 3rd-Party support for KDE, I'll post any information I get. In the D-A-CH region up until SLE 12 KDE and SuSE (not SUSE) were like a hand and glove, they fitted very well and were used together. __R ___________________________________________ Dick Waite Senior R&D Consultant Phone: +49 6151 92-1505 Mobile: +49 171 8393 769 Software AG Uhlandstr. 12 | 64297 Darmstadt | Germany www.softwareag.com ___________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] On Behalf Of James Taylor Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 11:53 PM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: Re: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? This is really bad news. All of the servers I support are using KDe for their GUI, and I run it exclusively as my primary desktop. I find Gnome to be nearly unusable as a productivity interface. Has there been any thought about what effect that will have on upgrading servers with only KDE installed? -jt >>> "Beddingfield, Allen" 4/23/2014 4:27 PM >>> Hi James, I didn't realize you were on here! This one got hashed out pretty early on... apparently the decision has been made the Gnome will be the one/only desktop for SLES/SLED in version 12. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of James Taylor [James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:21 PM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? I'm just getting started testing, and when I went into the software configuration, it appears only to have Gnome available. I use KDE exclusively in my linux workstation environment, which is my primary desktop. All of my current server installations have KDE. I find Gnome pretty unusable, so I'm hoping KDE will be available by the time SLES12 is released. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=48305&srvid=16vl15t _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta Software AG ? Sitz/Registered office: Uhlandstra?e 12, 64297 Darmstadt, Germany ? Registergericht/Commercial register: Darmstadt HRB 1562 - Vorstand/Management Board: Karl-Heinz Streibich (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Dr. Wolfram Jost, Arnd Zinnhardt; - Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Andreas Bereczky - http://www.softwareag.com From thomas.kronseder at mtu.de Thu Apr 24 01:36:51 2014 From: thomas.kronseder at mtu.de (KRONSEDER, Thomas, Dr.) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 07:36:51 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A77A2@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A77A2@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> Message-ID: <01559031EB071C47AA06542D982B9CD56C9B5CDE@memc023.de.mtu.corp> Hi, I had an extended private discussion with SUSE regarding removal of kde in the SLED context. The result was that SUSE will stick to its decision. Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best Regards Dr.-Ing. Thomas Kronseder MTU Aero Engines AG Fachgebietsverantwortlicher UNIX AdminCourt CAE / Analytik (POEA) CAE / analytic (POEA) Dachauer Strasse 665 80995 Muenchen Germany Tel: +49 (0)89 14 89 - 87 67 Fax: +49 (0)89 14 89 - 43 18 mailto:Thomas.Kronseder at mtu.de http://www.mtu.de -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Waite, Dick Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. April 2014 07:59 An: 'sles-beta at lists.suse.com' Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? Grand New Day, The demises of KDE on SUSE is bad news. KDE is supported on the new RHEL v7 going through beta at the moment. You will also find that as of SLE 12 SP-0 Beta5 you can not "Upgrade" from a simple SLE 11 SP3 which makes testing for us very hard as the items we wish to test are on SLE 11 SP-3 machines that I wish to Upgrade. Could be interesting if the Upgrade works at RC1 and that's the time we can really check-out SLE12 SP-0 There are some looking at 3rd-Party support for KDE, I'll post any information I get. In the D-A-CH region up until SLE 12 KDE and SuSE (not SUSE) were like a hand and glove, they fitted very well and were used together. __R ___________________________________________ Dick Waite Senior R&D Consultant Phone: +49 6151 92-1505 Mobile: +49 171 8393 769 Software AG Uhlandstr. 12 | 64297 Darmstadt | Germany www.softwareag.com ___________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] On Behalf Of James Taylor Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 11:53 PM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: Re: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? This is really bad news. All of the servers I support are using KDe for their GUI, and I run it exclusively as my primary desktop. I find Gnome to be nearly unusable as a productivity interface. Has there been any thought about what effect that will have on upgrading servers with only KDE installed? -jt >>> "Beddingfield, Allen" 4/23/2014 4:27 PM >>> Hi James, I didn't realize you were on here! This one got hashed out pretty early on... apparently the decision has been made the Gnome will be the one/only desktop for SLES/SLED in version 12. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of James Taylor [James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:21 PM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? I'm just getting started testing, and when I went into the software configuration, it appears only to have Gnome available. I use KDE exclusively in my linux workstation environment, which is my primary desktop. All of my current server installations have KDE. I find Gnome pretty unusable, so I'm hoping KDE will be available by the time SLES12 is released. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=48305&srvid=16vl15t _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta Software AG ? Sitz/Registered office: Uhlandstra?e 12, 64297 Darmstadt, Germany ? Registergericht/Commercial register: Darmstadt HRB 1562 - Vorstand/Management Board: Karl-Heinz Streibich (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Dr. Wolfram Jost, Arnd Zinnhardt; - Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Andreas Bereczky - http://www.softwareag.com _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta -- MTU Aero Engines AG Vorstand/Board of Management: Reiner Winkler, Vorsitzender/CEO; Dr. Rainer Martens, Michael Schrey?gg, Dr. Stefan Weingartner Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Klaus Eberhardt Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Muenchen Handelsregister/Commercial Register: Muenchen HRB 157206 Diese E-Mail sowie ihre Anhaenge enthalten MTU-eigene vertrauliche oder rechtlich geschuetzte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Empfaenger sind, informieren Sie bitte den Absender und loeschen Sie diese E-Mail sowie die Anhaenge. Das unbefugte Speichern, Kopieren oder Weiterleiten ist nicht gestattet. This e-mail and any attached documents are proprietary to MTU, confidential or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender and delete this message and its attachments. Any unauthorised storing, copying or distribution is prohibited. From Dick.Waite at softwareag.com Thu Apr 24 02:08:23 2014 From: Dick.Waite at softwareag.com (Waite, Dick) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:08:23 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <01559031EB071C47AA06542D982B9CD56C9B5CDE@memc023.de.mtu.corp> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A77A2@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <01559031EB071C47AA06542D982B9CD56C9B5CDE@memc023.de.mtu.corp> Message-ID: <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A78C4@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> Good Morning, I would agree, SUSE will keep to their decision on Desktops, so it allows others to fill in the missing KDE enviroment. OpenSource gives people their choice, it's not dictatorial like Microsoft or Apple it's what works best for you and your company. We have been talking to one big provider and they see it as a good offering to their services. To be honest at the moment it's not the choice of Display Manager that is holding us back testing SLE 12 SP-0 it's not being able to Upgrade our QE enviroment from SLE 11 SP-3, even very simple machine configurations fail either in "network", "grub" or "Display" on the re-ipl of the new enviroment. Looking forward to beta6 fixing the Upgrade issues otherwise we might not have enough time left before SP-0 is cast in stone. Very happy SLE 11-SP3 has a good shelf life I have a feeling it will be well used, the "Windows XP" of the Linux world ;o) Regards, ___________________________________________ Dick Waite Senior R&D Consultant Phone: +49 6151 92-1505 Mobile: +49 171 8393 769 Software AG Uhlandstr. 12 | 64297 Darmstadt | Germany www.softwareag.com ___________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] On Behalf Of KRONSEDER, Thomas, Dr. Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 9:37 AM To: 'sles-beta at lists.suse.com' Subject: Re: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? Hi, I had an extended private discussion with SUSE regarding removal of kde in the SLED context. The result was that SUSE will stick to its decision. Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best Regards Dr.-Ing. Thomas Kronseder MTU Aero Engines AG Fachgebietsverantwortlicher UNIX AdminCourt CAE / Analytik (POEA) CAE / analytic (POEA) Dachauer Strasse 665 80995 Muenchen Germany Tel: +49 (0)89 14 89 - 87 67 Fax: +49 (0)89 14 89 - 43 18 mailto:Thomas.Kronseder at mtu.de http://www.mtu.de -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Waite, Dick Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. April 2014 07:59 An: 'sles-beta at lists.suse.com' Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? Grand New Day, The demises of KDE on SUSE is bad news. KDE is supported on the new RHEL v7 going through beta at the moment. You will also find that as of SLE 12 SP-0 Beta5 you can not "Upgrade" from a simple SLE 11 SP3 which makes testing for us very hard as the items we wish to test are on SLE 11 SP-3 machines that I wish to Upgrade. Could be interesting if the Upgrade works at RC1 and that's the time we can really check-out SLE12 SP-0 There are some looking at 3rd-Party support for KDE, I'll post any information I get. In the D-A-CH region up until SLE 12 KDE and SuSE (not SUSE) were like a hand and glove, they fitted very well and were used together. __R ___________________________________________ Dick Waite Senior R&D Consultant Phone: +49 6151 92-1505 Mobile: +49 171 8393 769 Software AG Uhlandstr. 12 | 64297 Darmstadt | Germany www.softwareag.com ___________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] On Behalf Of James Taylor Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 11:53 PM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: Re: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? This is really bad news. All of the servers I support are using KDe for their GUI, and I run it exclusively as my primary desktop. I find Gnome to be nearly unusable as a productivity interface. Has there been any thought about what effect that will have on upgrading servers with only KDE installed? -jt >>> "Beddingfield, Allen" 4/23/2014 4:27 PM >>> Hi James, I didn't realize you were on here! This one got hashed out pretty early on... apparently the decision has been made the Gnome will be the one/only desktop for SLES/SLED in version 12. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of James Taylor [James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:21 PM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? I'm just getting started testing, and when I went into the software configuration, it appears only to have Gnome available. I use KDE exclusively in my linux workstation environment, which is my primary desktop. All of my current server installations have KDE. I find Gnome pretty unusable, so I'm hoping KDE will be available by the time SLES12 is released. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=48305&srvid=16vl15t _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta Software AG ? Sitz/Registered office: Uhlandstra?e 12, 64297 Darmstadt, Germany ? Registergericht/Commercial register: Darmstadt HRB 1562 - Vorstand/Management Board: Karl-Heinz Streibich (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Dr. Wolfram Jost, Arnd Zinnhardt; - Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Andreas Bereczky - http://www.softwareag.com _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta -- MTU Aero Engines AG Vorstand/Board of Management: Reiner Winkler, Vorsitzender/CEO; Dr. Rainer Martens, Michael Schrey?gg, Dr. Stefan Weingartner Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Klaus Eberhardt Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Muenchen Handelsregister/Commercial Register: Muenchen HRB 157206 Diese E-Mail sowie ihre Anhaenge enthalten MTU-eigene vertrauliche oder rechtlich geschuetzte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der beabsichtigte Empfaenger sind, informieren Sie bitte den Absender und loeschen Sie diese E-Mail sowie die Anhaenge. Das unbefugte Speichern, Kopieren oder Weiterleiten ist nicht gestattet. This e-mail and any attached documents are proprietary to MTU, confidential or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender and delete this message and its attachments. Any unauthorised storing, copying or distribution is prohibited. _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta From mge at suse.com Thu Apr 24 02:17:24 2014 From: mge at suse.com (Matthias G. Eckermann) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:17:24 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: <20140424081724.GA17791@suse.com> Hello James, I just bounced you an E-Mail (dating 2014-02-27) written by Jan Weber, my product management colleague responsible for desktop; he is currently traveling and thus does not have regular E-Mail access. On 2014-04-23 T 17:53 -0400 James Taylor wrote: > I find Gnome to be nearly unusable as a productivity > interface. This was true in the past, indeed. However, just test the SLES 12 Beta5 "incarnation" of Gnome3. To me personally (also coming from KDE) it looks clean and directly usable. > Has there been any thought about what effect that will > have on upgrading servers with only KDE installed? This topic is also covered in Jan's E-Mail. So long - MgE P.S.: If anybody else missed Jan's E-Mail, I can bounce or even resend it to this list again. > >>> "Beddingfield, Allen" 4/23/2014 4:27 PM >>> > Hi James, > I didn't realize you were on here! > This one got hashed out pretty early on... apparently the decision has been made the Gnome will be the one/only desktop for SLES/SLED in version 12. > Allen B. > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of James Taylor [James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:21 PM > To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com > Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? > > I'm just getting started testing, and when I went into the software configuration, it appears only to have Gnome available. > I use KDE exclusively in my linux workstation environment, which is my primary desktop. > All of my current server installations have KDE. I find Gnome pretty unusable, so I'm hoping KDE will be available by the time SLES12 is released. > -jt > > > > James Taylor > 678-697-9420 > james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > > If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=48305&srvid=16vl15t > > > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > -- Matthias G. Eckermann Senior Product Manager SUSE? Linux Enterprise Phone: +49 30 44315731 Mobile: +49 179 2949448 E-Mail: mge at suse.com SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstra?e 5 90409 N?rnberg Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) From kukuk at suse.de Thu Apr 24 02:19:29 2014 From: kukuk at suse.de (Thorsten Kukuk) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:19:29 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A78C4@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A77A2@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <01559031EB071C47AA06542D982B9CD56C9B5CDE@memc023.de.mtu.corp> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A78C4@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> Message-ID: <20140424081929.GA10779@suse.de> Hi, On Thu, Apr 24, Waite, Dick wrote: > To be honest at the moment it's not the choice of Display Manager that is holding us back testing SLE 12 SP-0 it's not being able to Upgrade our QE enviroment from SLE 11 SP-3, even very simple machine configurations fail either in "network", "grub" or "Display" on the re-ipl of the new enviroment. Looking forward to beta6 fixing the Upgrade issues otherwise we might not have enough time left before SP-0 is cast in stone. Since you always write "re-ipl" I assume you are speaking about SystemZ? I can only test x86-64, and there upgrade works since several Betas without real problems (means there are only cosmetic ones and that you cannot register yet). And yes, you can ignore popups that the network configuration couldn't be adjusted, you don't want that this works. But I cannot find any bug report for System Z upgrade problems. Beside that: I did never understand and I think I will never understand why people wants to make an upgrade of production machines from one major release to another. Upgrade always needs much more time and the machine is out of production during that time. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Senior Architect SLES & Common Code Base SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) From Dick.Waite at softwareag.com Thu Apr 24 03:27:17 2014 From: Dick.Waite at softwareag.com (Waite, Dick) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 09:27:17 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <20140424081929.GA10779@suse.de> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A77A2@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <01559031EB071C47AA06542D982B9CD56C9B5CDE@memc023.de.mtu.corp> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A78C4@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <20140424081929.GA10779@suse.de> Message-ID: <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A797F@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> Hi Thorsten, No I'm talking about x86_64, we have issues with s390x but that's in a new install, we have only tried one Update and that did not get too far. We have in the past waited until x86_64 Updates clean before switching to s390x. So just new installs on s390x. Why we update production machines is because all the real "beef" we use is working well with the current GA. So we clone the production to its new enviroment and then run Update on the clone. We want to make sure all our "stuff" is working with all your new "stuff". The "original" production runs on your current GA until the new version checks out with our QE tests. Can you try a simple SLE 11-SP3 machine; KDE and one Ethernet connection, running in say VMware Workstation v10. This for us gets one burp in the Upgrade pass of: [ Internal Error: Details:undefined method '+' for nil:NilClass Caller: /mount/mp_0001/usr/share/Yast2/modules/Kdump.rb.510:in "BuildCrashKernelValue" ] As you say, keep going and then the system re-boot's into the new enviroment. Here one can get a GRUB issue and you stop quickly, or you get to the issue attached. This is all in Service Request: 10884981671 I would 100% agree it's got better, but until I can get my working "cloned" production machines onto the v12-SP0 beta I'm a bit stuck. I can run new compiles and builds etc, which we do and other good stuff but both your company and mine want to give a "stamp" that current GA machine will works seamlessly on SLE 12 SP-0. When that's working then one can enjoy all the new features of SLE 12 Regards, ___________________________________________ Dick Waite Senior R&D Consultant Phone: +49 6151 92-1505 Mobile: +49 171 8393 769 Software AG Uhlandstr. 12 | 64297 Darmstadt | Germany www.softwareag.com ___________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] On Behalf Of Thorsten Kukuk Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:19 AM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: Re: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? Hi, On Thu, Apr 24, Waite, Dick wrote: > To be honest at the moment it's not the choice of Display Manager that is holding us back testing SLE 12 SP-0 it's not being able to Upgrade our QE enviroment from SLE 11 SP-3, even very simple machine configurations fail either in "network", "grub" or "Display" on the re-ipl of the new enviroment. Looking forward to beta6 fixing the Upgrade issues otherwise we might not have enough time left before SP-0 is cast in stone. Since you always write "re-ipl" I assume you are speaking about SystemZ? I can only test x86-64, and there upgrade works since several Betas without real problems (means there are only cosmetic ones and that you cannot register yet). And yes, you can ignore popups that the network configuration couldn't be adjusted, you don't want that this works. But I cannot find any bug report for System Z upgrade problems. Beside that: I did never understand and I think I will never understand why people wants to make an upgrade of production machines from one major release to another. Upgrade always needs much more time and the machine is out of production during that time. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Senior Architect SLES & Common Code Base SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta Software AG ? Sitz/Registered office: Uhlandstra?e 12, 64297 Darmstadt, Germany ? Registergericht/Commercial register: Darmstadt HRB 1562 - Vorstand/Management Board: Karl-Heinz Streibich (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Dr. Wolfram Jost, Arnd Zinnhardt; - Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Andreas Bereczky - http://www.softwareag.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ostia-12-0-1-2014-04-19-10-46-11.png Type: image/png Size: 46456 bytes Desc: Ostia-12-0-1-2014-04-19-10-46-11.png URL: From kukuk at suse.de Thu Apr 24 03:34:17 2014 From: kukuk at suse.de (Thorsten Kukuk) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 11:34:17 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A797F@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A77A2@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <01559031EB071C47AA06542D982B9CD56C9B5CDE@memc023.de.mtu.corp> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A78C4@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <20140424081929.GA10779@suse.de> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A797F@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> Message-ID: <20140424093417.GA18277@suse.de> Hi, On Thu, Apr 24, Waite, Dick wrote: > Hi Thorsten, > > No I'm talking about x86_64, we have issues with s390x but that's in a new install, we have only tried one Update and that did not get too far. We have in the past waited until x86_64 Updates clean before switching to s390x. But x86-64 does not know about re-ipl ;) > Can you try a simple SLE 11-SP3 machine; KDE and one Ethernet connection, running in say VMware Workstation v10. I don't have VMware products here, I make my tests only on real hardware or KVM. And there it works. > This for us gets one burp in the Upgrade pass of: > > [ Internal Error: Details:undefined method '+' for nil:NilClass Caller: /mount/mp_0001/usr/share/Yast2/modules/Kdump.rb.510:in "BuildCrashKernelValue" ] > > As you say, keep going and then the system re-boot's into the new enviroment. Here one can get a GRUB issue and you stop quickly, or you get to the issue attached. This is all in Service Request: 10884981671 I haven't seen that error yet. What you could try is, to disable the bootloader proposal during upgrade, then the old grub 0.97 should be continued to be used. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Senior Architect SLES & Common Code Base SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) From Dick.Waite at softwareag.com Thu Apr 24 04:18:04 2014 From: Dick.Waite at softwareag.com (Waite, Dick) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:18:04 +0000 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <20140424093417.GA18277@suse.de> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A77A2@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <01559031EB071C47AA06542D982B9CD56C9B5CDE@memc023.de.mtu.corp> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A78C4@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <20140424081929.GA10779@suse.de> <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A797F@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> <20140424093417.GA18277@suse.de> Message-ID: <46AC8C81C10B8C48820201DF2AE1D76D537A7A1C@hqmbx6.eur.ad.sag> Many Thanks Thorsten, I'll try a KVM with the same configuration I'm using with VMware Workstation. We are well into the grand German Spring holiday season now, late Easter, next week we have 1st May on a Thursday so nobody in on Friday. Beta6 on the Friday I leave for a workshop in Ireland for the week. I'll have another run with s390x and see if we can run a clean new install. __R ___________________________________________ Dick Waite Senior R&D Consultant Phone: +49 6151 92-1505 Mobile: +49 171 8393 769 Software AG Uhlandstr. 12 | 64297 Darmstadt | Germany www.softwareag.com ___________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] On Behalf Of Thorsten Kukuk Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 11:34 AM To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Subject: Re: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? Hi, On Thu, Apr 24, Waite, Dick wrote: > Hi Thorsten, > > No I'm talking about x86_64, we have issues with s390x but that's in a new install, we have only tried one Update and that did not get too far. We have in the past waited until x86_64 Updates clean before switching to s390x. But x86-64 does not know about re-ipl ;) > Can you try a simple SLE 11-SP3 machine; KDE and one Ethernet connection, running in say VMware Workstation v10. I don't have VMware products here, I make my tests only on real hardware or KVM. And there it works. > This for us gets one burp in the Upgrade pass of: > > [ Internal Error: Details:undefined method '+' for nil:NilClass > Caller: /mount/mp_0001/usr/share/Yast2/modules/Kdump.rb.510:in > "BuildCrashKernelValue" ] > > As you say, keep going and then the system re-boot's into the > new enviroment. Here one can get a GRUB issue and you stop quickly, or > you get to the issue attached. This is all in Service Request: > 10884981671 I haven't seen that error yet. What you could try is, to disable the bootloader proposal during upgrade, then the old grub 0.97 should be continued to be used. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Senior Architect SLES & Common Code Base SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta Software AG ? Sitz/Registered office: Uhlandstra?e 12, 64297 Darmstadt, Germany ? Registergericht/Commercial register: Darmstadt HRB 1562 - Vorstand/Management Board: Karl-Heinz Streibich (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Dr. Wolfram Jost, Arnd Zinnhardt; - Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dr. Andreas Bereczky - http://www.softwareag.com From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Thu Apr 24 08:45:06 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:45:06 -0400 Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? In-Reply-To: <20140424081724.GA17791@suse.com> References: <5357E8A502000075000477A9@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5357FE0F02000075000477CB@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <20140424081724.GA17791@suse.com> Message-ID: <5358EB32020000750004ACE3@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> I appreciate your reponse, but it is an alien environment for me, the change affects every single installation I've done over the past ten years, if you include all of the upgraded environments. The backend changes on 12 are challenging enough without having to deal with learning a whole new interface environment. The "incarnation" not withstanding, a bucket of manure with perfume on it is still a bucket of manure. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com >>> "Matthias G. Eckermann" 4/24/2014 4:17 AM >>> Hello James, I just bounced you an E-Mail (dating 2014-02-27) written by Jan Weber, my product management colleague responsible for desktop; he is currently traveling and thus does not have regular E-Mail access. On 2014-04-23 T 17:53 -0400 James Taylor wrote: > I find Gnome to be nearly unusable as a productivity > interface. This was true in the past, indeed. However, just test the SLES 12 Beta5 "incarnation" of Gnome3. To me personally (also coming from KDE) it looks clean and directly usable. > Has there been any thought about what effect that will > have on upgrading servers with only KDE installed? This topic is also covered in Jan's E-Mail. So long - MgE P.S.: If anybody else missed Jan's E-Mail, I can bounce or even resend it to this list again. > >>> "Beddingfield, Allen" 4/23/2014 4:27 PM >>> > Hi James, > I didn't realize you were on here! > This one got hashed out pretty early on... apparently the decision has been made the Gnome will be the one/only desktop for SLES/SLED in version 12. > Allen B. > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf of James Taylor [James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:21 PM > To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com > Subject: [sles-beta] KDE Desktop not available? > > I'm just getting started testing, and when I went into the software configuration, it appears only to have Gnome available. > I use KDE exclusively in my linux workstation environment, which is my primary desktop. > All of my current server installations have KDE. I find Gnome pretty unusable, so I'm hoping KDE will be available by the time SLES12 is released. > -jt > > > > James Taylor > 678-697-9420 > james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > > If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=48305&srvid=16vl15t > > > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > -- Matthias G. Eckermann Senior Product Manager SUSE? Linux Enterprise Phone: +49 30 44315731 Mobile: +49 179 2949448 E-Mail: mge at suse.com SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstra?e 5 90409 N?rnberg Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=48337&srvid=16vl15t From jsmeix at suse.de Thu Apr 24 08:56:39 2014 From: jsmeix at suse.de (Johannes Meixner) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:56:39 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [sles-beta] Issues on Beta4 In-Reply-To: <20140417093911.GA16665@linux-w520.guibland.com> References: <534CC1E2.6080808@oce.com> <20140417093911.GA16665@linux-w520.guibland.com> Message-ID: Hello On Apr 17 11:39 Antoine Ginies wrote (excerpt): > Klaus Gmeinwieser wrote (excerpt): >> - I want to get rid of cups on my installations, but GNOME's >> dependencies do not allow to remove cups. Is this correct behavior? > > Because gnome has the capabilitie to configure printer. I am not at all a Gnome expert but I wonder if the capability to configure a printer justifies hard RPM requirements for the software that provides that fuctionality. On my SLES12-beta5 system an analysis what actually requires cups (the rpm output is shown condensed here by me): ------------------------------------------------------------------------ rpm -e --test cups-client error: Failed dependencies: cups-client is needed by cups-1.7.2-6.1.x86_64 # rpm -e --test cups error: Failed dependencies: cups needed by cups-pk-helper-0.2.5-3.61.x86_64 cups needed by patterns-sles-print_server-12-28.1.x86_64 cups needed by system-config-printer-1.4.4-1.3.x86_64 # rpm -e --test system-config-printer [no output - i.e. nothing requires it] # rpm -e --test patterns-sles-print_server [no output - i.e. nothing requires it] # rpm -e --test cups-pk-helper error: Failed dependencies: cups-pk-helper needed by cups-pk-helper-lang-0.2.5-3.61.noarch cups-pk-helper needed by gnome-control-center-3.10.3-1.3.x86_64 # rpm -e --test cups-pk-helper-lang [no output - i.e. nothing requires it] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ When gnome-control-center has a hard RPM requirement for cups-pk-helper it must mean that gnome-control-center cannot run without it or that gnome-control-center does not make any sense without it. When gnome-control-center can run without cups-pk-helper in a reasonable way, then gnome-control-center should not have a hard RPM requirement for cups-pk-helper but only a weak RPM "Recommends" for it. This way cups-pk-helper (and CUPS) would be usually installed when gnome-control-center is installed (via zypper's "--recommends") but when a user deliberately does not want to have CUPS installed, the RPMs cups and cups-client could be removed without violating hard RPM requirements. In contrast the cups-libs RPM is usually needed by many other software packages that link with the CUPS libraries ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # rpm -e --test cups-libs 2>&1 \ | grep -o 'needed by .*' | cut -d ' ' -f4 | sort -u cups-1.7.2-6.1.x86_64 cups-client-1.7.2-6.1.x86_64 cups-filters-1.0.52-7.1.x86_64 cups-filters-cups-browsed-1.0.52-7.1.x86_64 cups-filters-ghostscript-1.0.52-7.1.x86_64 cups-pk-helper-0.2.5-3.61.x86_64 ghostscript-9.14-1.11.x86_64 gnome-control-center-3.10.3-1.3.x86_64 gnome-settings-daemon-3.10.2-7.2.x86_64 hplip-hpijs-3.14.4-2.3.x86_64 libgtk-2_0-0-2.24.23-1.23.x86_64 libgtk-3-0-3.10.7-1.35.x86_64 patterns-sles-base-12-28.1.x86_64 python-cups-1.9.66-1.3.x86_64 samba-libs-4.1.6-5.1.x86_64 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- so that without the cups-libs RPM the system becomes very minimal. Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH -- Maxfeldstrasse 5 -- 90409 Nuernberg -- Germany HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendoerffer From jrd at netlab1.net Thu Apr 24 09:47:23 2014 From: jrd at netlab1.net (Joe Doupnik) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:47:23 +0100 Subject: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools In-Reply-To: <589429196.9770799.1398312303741.JavaMail.root@vmware.com> References: <53555B96.3060606@netlab1.net> <53569F99.30702@netlab1.net> <5356B3C9.1020809@netlab1.net> <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFCBA@HXMB12.pnet.ch> <5357C35D.60701@netlab1.net> <5357D093.8030104@suse.com> <5357E647.1070603@netlab1.net> <589429196.9770799.1398312303741.JavaMail.root@vmware.com> Message-ID: <5359320B.5030800@netlab1.net> Bo Dang, Thank you for taking the time to discuss with us the open-vmtools situation with SLES/SLED. To be candid though, there remains uncertainty which I think needs be addressed somehow in the shipping material. That is, who "owns" open-vmtools? The uncertainty is if a nearly invisible third party does. So, I looked about the source RPM in SLES 12 beta 5 for some hints, and there is no simple answer to the concern. No copyright notice either. All very nebulous. We are experienced people here, so I did more thinking. There are two interfaces to be maintained in synchronization: hypervisor to tools and tools to guest o/s. The main products evolve independently. The poor tools shim tries to cope. The kernel evolves (steadily) and that involves a kmod rebuild operation of VMware's tools today, automated or not. Thus there is an advantage to having tools built with and shipped with the Linux kernel. Best would be to have the kernel and VMware's ESXi tools work together as they do presently. Part of the reason is the open-vmtools has not been particularly reliable in the past, and thus I have avoided it as other people may have as well. Thus history is also part of the concern. At this point matters are beyond radar range of we beta testers. Our hope are that the present rough edges will be smoothed by release time and all will be well again with both tool sets. Thanks, Joe D. On 24/04/2014 05:05, Bo Dang wrote: > Hi Kai,Joe,urs, allen, mge, Thorsten, uwe and all, > > Thanks a lot for your comments and concerns for open-vm-tools. I am > copying John who might have more info in this list. > > We are working closely with SUSE with related items. Such as, you > might know that toolsd service from open-vm-tools in current build > will not be started automatically and you need to execute "sudo > systemctl enable vmtoolsd" and "sudo systemctl start vmtoolsd" to > start its service manually. Legacy tools service doesn't work well in > current build , you will be suggested to remove some packages for > "open-vm-tools" first for its legacy tools installation. Such as > packages "open-vm-tools","open-vm-desktop" and "libvmtools0" > > Don't hesitate to let us know for any related issues :) > > Thanks again for all your supports and suggestions! > > Best Regards, > > Bo Dang > > bdang at vmware.com > Level 8 South Wing of Tower C Raycom InfoTech Park > No. 2 Kexueyuan South Road Haidian District Beijing, 100190, People's > Republic of China > +86-10-5993-4242 Office > +86-10-5993-4205 Fax > > *From: *"Joe Doupnik" > *To: *sles-beta at lists.suse.com > *Sent: *Thursday, April 24, 2014 12:11:51 AM > *Subject: *Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools > > Kai, > Thanks for taking the time to write up this situation. The story > appears to be better than I had thought. > Joe D. > > On 23/04/2014 15:39, Kai Dupke wrote: > > VMware already made a statement on this list before, but I asked them to > clarify again. > > The open-vm-tools are maintained by VMware but organized as an open > source project. > > SLES 12 include the tools because VMware as partner asked us to include > them, which is a good fit to our guest story. > > The today situation is an interim situation as with chicken-egg, because > VMware can't drop the tools from the ESX product as SLES 11 for example > does not contain the open-vm-tools at the moment. > > At the same time VMware can't just change the wording as the > open-vm-tools are, open available for each to rebuild and grab, which > could lead to false positive display. > > My understanding is that VMware will change the message to something > like 'guest provided' in the display of the client, without any 3rd > party or other confusion statement. > > We also work with VMware to get the support finalized in a way that > these package will be tagged as fully supported. > > greetings kai > > On 04/23/2014 03:42 PM, Joe Doupnik wrote: > > The key word is "if". We don't know that. There are various versions > of VMware hypervisor in use, little is known about how the open-vmware > tools fit into that puzzle and what it does/does not support in the way > of features. > Let's look at this geometrically, for welcomed relief. There is > VMware, there are SUSE virtual machines, and sandwiched between is a set > of tools. There are two interfaces involved. At the moment VMware-tools > matches the hypervisor version of choice. The third party open-vmware > offering hopefully (that ambiguous word) works with both sides today > (not necessarily true in the recent past), yet it is a third party to be > coordinated with the other two by means still unknown. The SUSE part of > things changed so that the VMware tools will not build with our v12 beta > 5 material; again the reasons are unknown. > How this situation will evolve during our beta is also unknown. > Which of these approaches offers least risk and broad version > coverage? Risk includes what the vendors involved will accept as a > proper systems component when fingers are pointed. That's a description > of what is concerning us about this situation. > Joe D. > > On 23/04/2014 14:27, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > > I'm having a hard time understanding why there is such concern here. > VMware supporting the open-vm-tools is preferable to me. I can then > use SUSE Manager to also manage my vm tools, instead of having to rely > on VMware for such things. I actually have a script that currently > does this, instead of using VMware's interface, but if the > functionality is the same, installing/updating is easier, and VMware > doesn't care/supports it, I don't see a problem. > > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > ________________________________ > From:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com > [sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] on behalf ofurs.frey at post.ch > [urs.frey at post.ch] > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 2:04 AM > To:jrd at netlab1.net;sles-beta at lists.suse.com > Subject: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools > > Hi > I fully agree with Joe > I mean I use VMwareTools coming together with the specific ESXi > release for good reasons for years now on different Linux distributions. > Now with SLES12 beta I am kind of ?urged? to use open-vm-tools which > obviously do not match the VMware environment I have here. > > Wouldn?t it be a solution to leave the final decision about which > VMware Tools to use to the end user? > > So I may choose to install what comes with SLES or I can also use what > gets delivered from ESXi. > Therefore no automated installations anymore together with SLES12. > > We do not know what the plans on VMware are. > For the moment, the statements of VMware about open-vm-tools do not > really convince me. > http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 > > Best regards > > Urs Frey > Post CH AG > Informationstechnologie > IT Betrieb > Webergutstrasse 12 > 3030 Bern (Zollikofen) > Telefon : ++41 (0)58 338 58 70 > FAX : ++41 (0)58 667 30 07 > E-Mail:urs.frey at post.ch > > Von:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com > [mailto:sles-beta-bounces at lists.suse.com] Im Auftrag von Joe Doupnik > Gesendet: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:24 PM > An:sles-beta at lists.suse.com > Betreff: Re: [sles-beta] Beta 5 and VMware-tools > > Keeping a perspective on this. There is now a gulf between SLES > v12 beta 5 and the VMware tools (o/s kind other 64-bit) provided with > ESXi v5. The VMware software stalls while making kmods. That's all > observational evidence. What we don't know is what changed. I will > presume that the SLES (including kernel) part has, for probably good > reasons, and that sooner or later VMware will issue tools for the v12 > level of SLES. But that is only my guessing. > What remains unconvincing is saying VMware recommends the > open-vmware tools. Lots of room to interpret what is said by whom and > in what context. The evidence says VMware ships their own tools rather > than the open-vmware ones. Folks with contractual details may well be > concerned, but we give the betas a chance to develop further before > jumping to firm conclusions. > Joe D. > > On 22/04/2014 17:58, Joe Doupnik wrote: > vCenter is a high priced separate management product. I do not > have it. ESXi servers have their own set of VMware tools. We click on > the vSphere client to request they be installed in a VM. They match > the particular version of ESXi. They don't work with beta 5, which > means there are two branches of tools and the vendor's branch has been > made inoperable. The open-vmware-tools item has had a rather chequered > history. I have no good reason to trust that item very far (at this > time). Now the branches are really separated. Not a comfortable > situation. > Joe D. > > On 22/04/2014 17:49, Kai Dupke wrote: > > On 04/22/2014 02:42 PM, Joe Doupnik wrote: > > Returning to this particular VMware-tools item today. > > Two points. > > [...] > > > > The open-vm-tools on SLES are the tools VMware recommends for the use. > > With "3rd party" you refer to the display in the Virtual Center I assume. > > > > Bo Dang form VMware commented on this earlier: > > > > Thanks for this info and keep contacting us! As john metnioned in > another thread "The intent of the message was to communicate that end > users do not need to worry about installing/updating VMware tools > centrally from vCenter. Instead users are expected to use OS package > manager to maintain vmware tools or open-vm-tools. We published the > following KB article to clarify that open-vm-tools are "supported" and > there is a FAQ at the bottom about this message at > http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 " and we are planning to change > message in the future to remove "3rd Party" and instead say something > like "Guest Managed" to reduce user concerns. > > > > greetings > > Kai Dupke > > Senior Product Manager > > Server Product Line > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sles-beta mailing list > > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sles-beta mailing list > > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > > Kai Dupke > Senior Product Manager > Server Product Line > > > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta&k=oIvRg1%2BdGAgOoM1BIlLLqw%3D%3D%0A&r=UKSbxMIYAkSEPzTbqdSR3w%3D%3D%0A&m=Goy90RdVnDoah1DqAcU%2FY4wIeNaUOekKlMW5tzzxFbM%3D%0A&s=7b6d5b27e8ec4744ae0d5b34b6e6b428ea8ee75bda2b98e2402e59d6fe304c66 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Thu Apr 24 10:22:02 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 12:22:02 -0400 Subject: [sles-beta] Installation on Xenserver 6.2 Message-ID: <535901EA020000750004AD0B@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> I realize this is not listed as a supported virtualization platform, but we have a significant number of customers that use that as their VM environment. I installed beta5 into a Xenserver 6.2 environment, and so far have not encountered any issues with the install process or initial access and configuration. Additionally, I ran an upgrade on a SLES11SP3 server on the same Xenserver host, and it was successful from initial testing. I did get an error during the boot loader install, which I suspect may have been related to the warning about the drive order naming, but it did not seem to cause the upgrade to fail. I failed to record the error when it was on the screen, so i will need to review the log to find out the specific text. The SLES11 server had KDE installed as the only GUI environment, so after the upgrade, I had a cli-only envrionment. I need to do additional testing to see what kind of issues I might encounter. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com From simon.rowe at eu.citrix.com Thu Apr 24 10:35:11 2014 From: simon.rowe at eu.citrix.com (Simon Rowe) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 17:35:11 +0100 Subject: [sles-beta] Installation on Xenserver 6.2 In-Reply-To: <535901EA020000750004AD0B@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> References: <535901EA020000750004AD0B@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: <53593D3F.4050301@eu.citrix.com> On 24/04/14 17:22, James Taylor wrote: > I realize this is not listed as a supported virtualization platform, but we have a significant number of customers that use that as their VM environment. > I installed beta5 into a Xenserver 6.2 environment, and so far have not encountered any issues with the install process or initial access and configuration. > Additionally, I ran an upgrade on a SLES11SP3 server on the same Xenserver host, and it was successful from initial testing. > I did get an error during the boot loader install, which I suspect may have been related to the warning about the drive order naming, but it did not seem to cause the upgrade to fail. > I failed to record the error when it was on the screen, so i will need to review the log to find out the specific text. > The SLES11 server had KDE installed as the only GUI environment, so after the upgrade, I had a cli-only envrionment. > I need to do additional testing to see what kind of issues I might encounter. > -jt > > > > James Taylor > 678-697-9420 > james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > sles-beta mailing list > sles-beta at lists.suse.com > http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta > > What template did you use? The SLES 11 one or an HVM one? SLES12 will not install PV because 1) pygrub doesn't support btrfs 2) Xen 4.1 pygrub doesn't handle grub2 submenus correctly I've raised these issues as Service Requests, Simon From jsavanyo at vmware.com Thu Apr 24 23:43:50 2014 From: jsavanyo at vmware.com (John Savanyo) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sles-beta] WG: SLES12 beta5 vmware tools, vmtoolsd In-Reply-To: <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFC59@HXMB12.pnet.ch> References: <40637DBB36AF3941B243A286A432CA0B0EFAFC59@HXMB12.pnet.ch> Message-ID: <729301257.10252752.1398404630334.JavaMail.root@vmware.com> Hi Urs, Please refer to the following KB article >> http://kb.vmware.com/kb/2073803 Which states: " VMware fully supports virtual machines that include open-vm-tools redistributed by operating system vendors, which is done in collaboration with the OS vendor and OS communities." Best John ----- Original Message ----- From: "urs frey" To: sles-beta at lists.suse.com Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:51:57 AM Subject: [sles-beta] WG: SLES12 beta5 vmware tools, vmtoolsd Hi I installed SLES12 beta5 on VMware ESXi 5.1 and enabled vmtoolsd v03er9:~ # systemctl status -l vmtoolsd vmtoolsd.service - Service for virtual machines hosted on VMware Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/vmtoolsd.service; enabled) Active: active (running) since Tue 2014-04-22 13:36:09 CEST; 4h 42min ago Docs: http://open-vm-tools.sourceforge.net/about.php Main PID: 550 (vmtoolsd) CGroup: /system.slice/vmtoolsd.service ??550 /usr/bin/vmtoolsd Apr 22 13:36:09 v03er9 systemd[1]: Started Service for virtual machines hosted on VMware. Apr 22 13:36:09 v03er9 vmsvc[550]: [ warning] [GLib-GObject] Attempt to add property ToolsCoreService::tcs-app-ctx after class was initialised Apr 22 13:36:09 v03er9 vmsvc[550]: [ warning] [GLib-GObject] Attempt to add property ToolsCoreService::tcs-prop-thread-pool after class was initialised v03er9:~ # lsmod | grep vm vmw_balloon 13415 0 vmw_vmci 71155 0 vmwgfx 147382 1 ttm 92283 1 vmwgfx drm 322623 2 ttm,vmwgfx v03er9:~ # On my v-sphere console still the same picture: vmware tools do not get recognized by v-sphere. Open-vm tools get classified as third party == alien This does mean ?not supported? on our ESX platform as far as I am instructed by our VMware provider Best regards Urs Frey Post CH AG Informationstechnologie IT Betrieb Webergutstrasse 12 3030 Bern (Zollikofen) Telefon : ++41 (0)58 338 58 70 FAX : ++41 (0)58 667 30 07 E-Mail: urs.frey at post.ch _______________________________________________ sles-beta mailing list sles-beta at lists.suse.com http://lists.suse.com/mailman/listinfo/sles-beta -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 171476 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From uwedr at suse.com Fri Apr 25 09:29:25 2014 From: uwedr at suse.com (Uwe Drechsel) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 17:29:25 +0200 Subject: [sles-beta] Conference call next week - Reminder In-Reply-To: <20140422150619.GK5568@suse.de> References: <20140422150619.GK5568@suse.de> Message-ID: <20140425152925.GA5811@suse.de> Dear Beta team, This is a reminder that we are going to have our next beta session on monday - details see below. Thanks Uwe -- Uwe Drechsel Project Manager SUSE Linux Products GmbH GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg) On Tue, Apr 22, Uwe Drechsel wrote: > I would like to take the opportunity to thank you for your support > and participation within SUSE Linux Enterprise 12 Beta Program. > > We'll continue with our regular calls and the next week on April 28, > Simona Arsene, Product Manager Services, invites you to join us for a > discussion the SUSE Customer Center (SCC) as well as SLES 12 Maintenance > and Support. > > SCC will be the central place for customers to check their > subscriptions, access support and manage their purchased products. Our > goal is to improve the user's engagement through enhanced usability > balanced with a stable and reliable platform. > > During the webcast, we will introduce SCC and you'll learn more about > the current status and the foreseeing plans. > > And talking about plans...In November 2013, we announced that starting > with SLES 11, SLES will have an extended life cycle of 13 years instead > of 10 years. If you're interested in finding out more about our product > lifecycle, then you shouldn't miss this webinar! > > As always, the session will end with Q&A. In case you already have > questions for us, because don't hesitate to submit them to > sarsene at suse.com or post them directly to our mailing list. > > > Monday, April 28 > > 17:00 CEST > 11:00 am EDT > 08:00 am PDT > 04:00 pm BST > 03:00 pm UTC/GMT > > Duration: 1 hour > > > The web presentation is done using Huddle (also for audio): > http://www.novell.com/huddle/event/index.php?event_id=64475d66314dc56a0df8fb8f7c5dbbaf > Password is: mysusebeta > > There is also a number of phone lines available, see attached file for > dial in information. > > > Thanks > Uwe Drechsel > > -- > SUSE Linux Beta Program Manager > SUSE Linux Products GmbH > GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend?rffer, HRB 16746 > (AG N?rnberg) > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > Passcodes/Pin codes: > Participant passcode: 8323563 > For security reasons, the passcode will be required to join the conference. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Dial in numbers: > Country Toll Numbers Freephone/Toll Free Number > > ARGENTINA 0800-777-0498 > AUSTRALIA ADELAIDE: 61-8-8121-4863 1-800-758-196 > AUSTRALIA BRISBANE: 61-7-3102-0965 1-800-758-196 > AUSTRALIA CANBERRA: 61-2-6100-1965 1-800-758-196 > AUSTRALIA MELBOURNE: 61-3-9010-7734 1-800-758-196 > AUSTRALIA PERTH: 61-8-9467-5244 1-800-758-196 > AUSTRALIA SYDNEY: 61-2-8211-1396 1-800-758-196 > AUSTRIA 43-1-92-80-003 0800-677-861 > BELGIUM 32-1-150-0312 0800-4-9471 > BRAZIL 55-11-3958-0776 0800-8912026 > CHILE 1230-020-2453 > CHINA CHINA A: 86-400-810-4761 10800-712-1202 > CHINA CHINA B: 86-400-810-4761 10800-120-1202 > COLOMBIA 01800-9-156439 > CROATIA 080-08-06-316 > CZECH REPUBLIC 420-2-25-98-56-16 800-700-168 > DENMARK 45-7014-0239 8088-2100 > ESTONIA 800-011-1121 > FINLAND 358-9-5424-7159 0-800-1-12771 > FRANCE LYON: 33-4-26-69-12-76 080-563-9909 > FRANCE MARSEILLE: 33-4-86-06-00-76 080-563-9909 > FRANCE PARIS: 33-1-70-75-25-35 080-563-9909 > GERMANY 49-69-2222-3198 0800-101-6627 > GREECE 30-80-1-100-0674 00800-12-6609 > HONG KONG 852-3001-3842 800-968-764 > HUNGARY 36-1-700-8853 06-800-17241 > INDIA BANGALORE: 91-80-61275197 > INDIA MUMBAI: 91-22-61501659 > INDIA INDIA A: 000-800-852-1218 > INDIA INDIA B: 000-800-001-6283 > INDIA INDIA C: 1800-300-00461 > INDONESIA 001-803-011-3502 > IRELAND 353-1-247-5274 1800-992-870 > ISRAEL 1-80-9303035 > ITALY MILAN: 39-02-3601-0953 800-985-849 > ITALY ROME: 39-06-8751-6017 800-985-849 > ITALY TORINO: 39-011-510-0117 800-985-849 > JAPAN OSAKA: 81-6-7739-4764 0034-800-40-0719 > JAPAN TOKYO: 81-3-5539-5164 0034-800-40-0719 > LATVIA 8000-3098 > LUXEMBOURG 352-27-000-1351 8002-9058 > MALAYSIA 1-800-80-8124 > MEXICO GUADALAJARA (JAL): 52-33-3208-7320 001-866-627-0579 > MEXICO MEXICO CITY: 52-55-5062-9120 001-866-627-0579 > MEXICO MONTERREY: 52-81-2482-0620 001-866-627-0579 > NETHERLANDS 31-20-718-8530 0800-023-4392 > NEW ZEALAND 64-9-970-4646 0800-447-834 > NORWAY 47-21-59-00-49 800-15497 > PANAMA 011-001-800-5072083 > PERU 0800-53753 > PHILIPPINES 63-2-858-3710 1800-111-42448 > POLAND 00-800-1211184 > PORTUGAL 8008-12439 > ROMANIA 40-31-630-01-76 > RUSSIA 8-10-8002-9873011 > SAUDI ARABIA 800-8-110076 > SINGAPORE 65-6883-9208 800-120-4284 > SLOVAK REPUBLIC 421-2-322-422-16 0800-002091 > SOUTH AFRICA 080-09-93384 > SOUTH KOREA 82-2-6744-1062 00798-14800-6326 > SPAIN 34-91-414-40-78 800-098-194 > SWEDEN 46-8-505-96-328 0200-897-068 > SWITZERLAND 41-44-580-4210 0800-000-782 > TAIWAN 886-2-2795-7358 00801-137-694 > THAILAND 001-800-1206-65092 > TURKEY 00-800-151-0301 > UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 8000-35702368 > UNITED KINGDOM BIRMINGHAM: 44-121-210-9016 0800-279-3590 > UNITED KINGDOM GLASGOW: 44-141-202-3216 0800-279-3590 > UNITED KINGDOM LEEDS: 44-113-301-2116 0800-279-3590 > UNITED KINGDOM LONDON: 44-20-7950-6551 0800-279-3590 > UNITED KINGDOM MANCHESTER: 44-161-601-1416 0800-279-3590 > URUGUAY 000-413-598-3431 > USA 1-210-795-1143 866-297-1588 > VENEZUELA 0800-1-00-2797 > > Restrictions may exist when accessing freephone/toll free numbers using a mobile telephone. >