[sles-beta] php disappeared in beta6?

[Matthias G. Eckermann]

Hello Darren and all,

On 2014-05-19 T 17:24 +1000 Darren Thompson wrote:

> There seems to be a disjoin in thinking between OS
> Install and OS patching.
> 
> SUSE provides very powerful patching tools and RPM
> based patching is very good lately (I personally have
> very few issues with automatic dependency resolution
> etc).
> 
> BUT, that is not what we are trying to discuss. What
> we are discussing is the OS Instillation process. The
> vendor provided media really should be all you
> require for a basic OS install.
> 
> The OS install workflow for SLES12 is starting to
> assume internet connected servers which are
> registered back to Novell Immediately, and that is
> rarely the reality of the server builds I have been
> involved with.

Relax! :-)

Calling my PM peers for witnesses: I am personally very
vocal about the requirement that we should never assume
that a system to be installed is directly connected to
the Internet.

However, we indeed assume that any system has access to
a "proxy server", i.e. either SMT or SUSE Manager,
which contains the update packages -- and going forward
also the "Modules"; patches to SMT 11 SP3 will be made
available later in summer to enable this, as I already
wrote in response to a question by Urs on this list.

And because SMT and SUSE Manager can also work in
"disconnected mode", security or privacy requirements
of any customer should be met.
 
> My "normal" build/workflow is more like:

> 1. Install server (either from Install media of via a
> pre-configured "install server" on-site that has the
> installation media content).
>
> 2. Verify that the server is running correctly and no
> obvious hardware/software issue are encountered.
>
> 3. Local customisations/configurations are applied
>
> 4. Register server to SMT server (I know that ZCM
> and/Or SUSE Manager could be used, but that is not my
> "normal" workflow), apply all "know good" patches.
>
> 5. Go to Novell Customer Centre Portal and ensure
> that server has registered there (it normally is
> proxy registered through SMT).

For the future the process might look like this:

1. Fill the (local, potentially disconnected) SMT
   with latest updates or (better) use SUSE Manager
   to create a custom set of packages.

   The process how to do that will not change from
   SLE 11 to SLE 12.

2. Install system, either from Install media of via a
   pre-configured "install server" on-site that has the
   installation media content (or via SUSE Manager).

   During installation, register the system to SMT
   or SUSE Manager and get all (provided) updates
   applied. In addition you automatically will get
   access to all Modules and can install them directly
   during the first run.

   As mentioned above, this step reqires updates to SMT
   which not yet have been delivered (unfortunately).

3. Local customisations/configurations are applied

4. Go to Novell Customer Centre Portal and ensure
   that server has registered there (it normally is
   proxy registered through SMT / SUSE Manager).

As you see, the workflow is not that significantly
different from your old workflow.  Because you can
configure the patches to be installed via SMT or more
comfortable via SUSE Manager, the result of the
installation is not different from the result of your
workflow today.

However, you have two advantages:

1. You save one update/reboot cycle, as you register
   and update directly during the first run. 

2. Your system will receive critical updates before
   the first reboot. This is important, if we would
   encounter issues with e.g. not yet released hardware,
   and we would need to release updates to "dracut"
   (just an example).
   Releasing new ISOs just is not an option usually
   due to certification requirements, ...

> In a lot of cases, these server do not and never have
> direct internet access so cannot do the registration
> or on-line patching driectly.

Understood -- and thanks for confirming my position
that "disconnected" installation is important!

so long -
	MgE


> On 19 May 2014 17:11, Matthias G. Eckermann <mge at suse.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Darren and all,
> >
> > On 2014-05-19 T 09:27 +1000 Darren Thompson wrote:
> >
> > > I have stood out of this discussion so far but feel I
> > > need to make a contribution.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > Even when we have SMT/Zenworks servers available,
> > > it's NEVER been considered good form to have patches
> > > installed at build time (how do you get to a "know
> > > good" build state if you are changing packages "on
> > > the fly"?).
> >
> > you really should have a look how we have solved it,
> > before involving into the discussion. It's not that
> >
> > If that were not enough, SMT or -- more powerful --
> > SUSE Manager will help you to manage your systems.
> >
> > > The installation media should be all that's needed
> > > for a complete server OS install. If there are
> > > "critical" issue with the installation media, it
> > > should be reissued with the fixes integrated.
> > [...]
> > > If the build process REQUIRES on-line registration
> > > and patching, then the build process is wrong.
> >
> > I am afraid, this is contradicting the requirements we
> > get all over all: Isn't it fair to say that patching
> > via RPMs is the "industry standard"? And this is how we
> > provide fixes for any issues - and even features and
> > enhancements, if there is a critical mass of customers
> > requesting this.
> >
> > so long -
> >         MgE
> >
> > --
> > Matthias G. Eckermann     Senior Product Manager   SUSE® Linux Enterprise
> > Phone: +49 30 44315731    Mobile: +49 179 2949448    E-Mail: mge at suse.com
> > SUSE LINUX Products GmbH  Maxfeldstraße 5          90409 Nürnberg Germany
> > GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Darren Thompson
> 
> Professional Services Engineer / Consultant
> 
>  *[image: cid:image001.jpg at 01CB7C0C.6C6A2AE0]*
> 
> Level 3, 60 City Road
> 
> Southgate, VIC 3006
> 
> Mb: 0400 640 414
> 
> Mail: darrent at akurit.com.au <steve at akurit.com.au>
> Web: www.akurit.com.au



-- 
Matthias G. Eckermann     Senior Product Manager   SUSE® Linux Enterprise
Phone: +49 30 44315731    Mobile: +49 179 2949448    E-Mail: mge at suse.com
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH  Maxfeldstraße 5          90409 Nürnberg Germany
GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)